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Blackbird
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Jun-12-13, 02:06 PM (EDT)
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"Various Corwin-related questions"
 
   On Named Weaponry and the Importance Thereof

Having started re-reading the Symphony, a line in A Rose for the New Year struck me. Corwin says "Any weapon of any significance will have a name." Obviously, Stick is named, and is of significance, but does his Mauser have a name?


On Corwin's Portfolio

In Ceremony and Celebration, Odin announces the newly-ascended Corwin as "Lord of the Great Machines". Elsewhere, he is commonly referred to as "The Norse God of Mecha". Obviously, with his mother being who she is, and his conventional training, the waters are somewhat muddied, but he seems to be able to leverage his divinity over many things, outside of mecha, like the Valiant's engines and some other things I'm forgetting.

So, what falls under the heading of "mecha" and "great machines"? Would he, for instance, be able to cripple any class of Destroid with a thought? What about battlemovers? Veritech fighters? Cybertronians?


My apologies if I'm examining too closely, I'm one of those worldbuilding/background types.

Thanks in advance.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Various Corwin-related questions Gryphonadmin Jun-12-13 1
     RE: Various Corwin-related questions Blackbird Jun-12-13 2
         RE: Various Corwin-related questions Gryphonadmin Jun-12-13 3
     RE: Various Corwin-related questions Mercutio Jun-12-13 4
         RE: Various Corwin-related questions Blackbird Jun-12-13 5
             RE: Various Corwin-related questions Gryphonadmin Jun-12-13 6
                 RE: Various Corwin-related questions Pasha Jun-13-13 8
                     RE: Various Corwin-related questions Offsides Jun-13-13 10
                         RE: Various Corwin-related questions jhosmer1 Jun-13-13 11
                             RE: Various Corwin-related questions mdg1 Jun-13-13 12
                 RE: Various Corwin-related questions DocMuiteam Jun-13-13 14
         RE: Various Corwin-related questions Meagen Jun-13-13 9
         RE: Various Corwin-related questions Peter Eng Jun-13-13 13
     RE: Various Corwin-related questions Polychrome Jun-12-13 7

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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-12-13, 02:38 PM (EDT)
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1. "RE: Various Corwin-related questions"
In response to message #0
 
   >Obviously, Stick is named, and is of
>significance, but does his Mauser have a name?

No, there's nothing particularly special about it. It's just a gun.

>he seems to be able to leverage his divinity
>over many things, outside of mecha, like the Valiant's engines and
>some other things I'm forgetting.

I suppose it depends what you mean by "mecha", or, for that matter, "great machine" - the actual Asgardian term on his divinity license, as it were, probably doesn't translate very precisely. It's also worth pointing out that he doesn't customarily do anything outright paranormal when he's working in the Valiant's engine room. He's not "leverag[ing] his divinity" there so much as just generally being good with tools.

>So, what falls under the heading of "mecha" and "great machines"?

See the note about translation above. This is a thing that I broadly prefer to determine when and if I need to, rather than making strict commitments out-of-story.

>Would he, for instance, be able to cripple any class of Destroid with
>a thought?

Possibly, but where's the sport in that? (Also, it might depend on whether his limiter was in place. With it off, he could conceivably cripple entire classes of Destroids with a thought, as in "no Atlas will work, anywhere, today.")

>Cybertronians?

Transformers aren't equipment, they're people. He knows a lot about how they work - probably more than any other organic being - but it's doubtful that he could (and even more doubtful that he would) indulge in wave-of-the-hand theatrics when dealing with them.

Like all the gods who choose to live among mortals, Corwin can do a lot of things that he generally opts not to do, in the interest of not jostling people's worldviews too roughly. For instance, he can fly, but hardly ever does so because he thinks it's ostentatious. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Blackbird
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Jun-12-13, 02:49 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: Various Corwin-related questions"
In response to message #1
 
   Ah, I see. I suppose there is some distinction to be drawn between guns and swords, presumably the whole "elegant weapon" bit, to one extent or another. Or, I'm just over-thinking this.

I completely understand keeping Corwin's powers in check, as well as somewhat nebulous. I was just curious about how broad his portfolio is, to wrap my head around his abilities. That translation bit was really what I was wondering about, and how closely the official language corresponds to his actual portfolio.

Thank you for clarifying.

Also, since I'm rather new here, thank you (and the rest of the Suspects, Usual and otherwise) for creating this fascinating (and thoroughly enjoyable) setting.


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-12-13, 03:06 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: Various Corwin-related questions"
In response to message #2
 
   >Ah, I see. I suppose there is some distinction to be drawn between
>guns and swords, presumably the whole "elegant weapon" bit, to one
>extent or another.

Nah, there are guns with Names, that's just not one of them.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Mercutio
Member since May-25-13
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Jun-12-13, 07:22 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: Various Corwin-related questions"
In response to message #1
 
   >Like all the gods who choose to live among mortals, Corwin can do a
>lot of things that he generally opts not to do, in the interest of not
>jostling people's worldviews too roughly.

As another worldbuilding nerd, I've always also assumed that there are various metaphysical, practical, and political considerations keeping the divinities in check above and beyond not wanting to freak the mundanes.

I invite Blackbird to consider "Futureshock," a short and sweet little story in Exile. Short version: Largo tries to move in on Tomodachi. Skuld decides, mmm, no that's not going to happen. She demonstrates that she can destroy his goons with simple command words, and then defaces his actual soul.

What she DOESN'T do is kill him. Why? Because, metaphysically speaking (and the story is pretty up-front about that) it isn't TIME for him to die yet. The universe has decided that Largo exists for a reason and Skuld doesn't have the authority to contravene that reason just because she feels like it. She can operate around the edges ("Get out of my house and never, ever come back") but can't do more than that.

So Corwin probably has metaphysical fetters on his power. But there are also likely practical and political ones as well.

I sort of figure there are various extremely ancient pacts in place with the Pit that determine the extent to which both Gods and Demons can lay down incredibly ostentatious acts of divine or demonic intervention in Midgard, on the grounds that neither side would really like it to become simply another extended battlefield in their longstanding cold war/hot war.

And even if there weren't... well, a lot of what Corwin does in Midgard isn't, in terms of practical impact, much beyond what various incredibly gifted mortals (like, say, his Dad) can do. There's probably a decent understanding of magic and paranormal phenomenon among the major powers, both friendly and unfriendly. One imagines that both the Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar have various psionics and mages on the payroll, for example, before you even get into groups like Big Fire. To the other great powers, Corwin is just another supremely gifted individual who is affiliated with his fathers cavalcade of elite intergalactic badasses. If he wants to call himself a god, well, go ahead. Plenty of people have made that claim.

That probably changes a little if he, or his mother, start doing things like declaring "your entire battlefleet ceases to work" or "that army you just landed that is mostly Destroids? Good luck with THAT" with a wave of their hand. At that point other great powers start thinking "holy shit, we can't possibly stand against THAT. I guess it wasn't a joke, they ARE actual divinities. Fuck. How do we achieve force parity?"

After which very accommodating gentlemen from Muspelheim might knock on your door and offer you, ooo, all SORTS of interesting options for insulating yourself from divine retribution for sale at what are really very reasonable rates.

Basically, to me as a reader, I've always figured that a big part of the reason Corwin and Skuld and various Valkyries don't whip out their divine wangs on a regular basis is that it's a power escalation they'd really rather NOT deal with.

-Merc
Keep Rat


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Blackbird
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Jun-12-13, 08:56 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: Various Corwin-related questions"
In response to message #4
 
   One wonders what precisely those agreements look like, especially after the Ragnarok. Especially since Muspelheim seems like it's looking to forge alliances in Midgard.

At any rate, I was somewhat more concerned with the breadth of an Aes' power, rather than the depth. I've always considered the UF-Aesir to have something of an unconscious rapport with their portfolio, over and above conscious command, with or without limiters. So instead of Corwin asking it to do something, the thing, on some ill-defined, metaphysical level, recognizes him, and does him a favor, so to speak.

For instance, somewhere, I can't remember where, some observer sees Corwin praying, and wonders whether it would actually help, or something to that effect. How much of that is Corwin being a Aes in general, Corwin being his mother's son, or Corwin being the Aes of the Great Machines? Where does the Aes end and the engineer begin?

(These are mostly rhetorical.)

Also, Futureshock is one of my favorites, because of that "coiled serpent" aspect, that Largo is so utterly outclassed.


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-12-13, 09:16 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: Various Corwin-related questions"
In response to message #5
 
   >For instance, somewhere, I can't remember where, some observer sees
>Corwin praying, and wonders whether it would actually help, or
>something to that effect.

Heh, depends who he's praying to. Usually when Corwin invokes one or more of his ancestors it's rhetorical, something he picked up more from his father than his mother.

As an aside, someone once noted in a discussion thread that any prayer to Corwin - particularly his equivalent of Shepard's Prayer* - ought to contain the assertion, "I have done the math." I could not argue with this. :)

--G.
"Lord, please don't let me fuck up."
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Pasha
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Jun-13-13, 00:03 AM (EDT)
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8. "RE: Various Corwin-related questions"
In response to message #6
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-13-13 AT 00:03 AM (EDT)
 
>As an aside, someone once noted in a discussion thread that any prayer
>to Corwin - particularly his equivalent of Shepard's Prayer* -
>ought to contain the assertion, "I have done the math." I could not
>argue with this. :)

Minor quibble: It was "My math is right", stolen from you, actually, in Sonata 1:

Corwin took a couple of deep breaths and steadied his mind.  The math was right.  The plan was going to work.

Which I converted to the First Prayer of the Book of Corwin:
"

Lord Corwin, my cause is Just, my Math is Right.  Please don't let me fuck this up.

--
-Pasha
What was that feeling again?
Oh yes.
-Rage-


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Offsides
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Jun-13-13, 09:53 AM (EDT)
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10. "RE: Various Corwin-related questions"
In response to message #8
 
   >The First Prayer of the Book of Corwin:
>
"Lord Corwin, my cause is Just, my Math is Right.  Please don't 
>let me fuck this up."

That's utterly brilliant. I don't know how I missed it the first time.

Now you've got me thinking about what the other contents of the Book of Corwin would be, although I'm coming up blank at the moment...

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>


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jhosmer1
Member since Jan-11-07
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Jun-13-13, 10:07 AM (EDT)
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11. "RE: Various Corwin-related questions"
In response to message #10
 
   I shall walk through the valley of being Lost in Cleveland and fear no evil...


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mdg1
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Jun-13-13, 11:35 AM (EDT)
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12. "RE: Various Corwin-related questions"
In response to message #11
 
   And the god called out, with a voice like unto thunder. And there came a rumbling and rending of the earth, as the First Of Iron arose from his slumber, to smite the guilty.

The Time of Showing had arrived.

Mario


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DocMuiteam
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Jun-13-13, 09:50 PM (EDT)
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14. "RE: Various Corwin-related questions"
In response to message #6
 
   A prayer to Corwin? Well, I offer the extended cut of one used by the first worshiper, Chip:

O Mighty One, O Mecha Maestro, O Corwin of the Raven Hair, Ruler of All that Clanks and Kicks Ass, I could really use some help right now. Actually, it's either you or my Dad, and Dad would crater the place in the process. Anyway, if you could kindly come here in the next (insert time here), I'd really appreciate it. And yes, I've done the math twice. Okay, three times, but it's amazing how fast the mind works when you're running for your life. Sincerely, your first worshiper, Charles Philip Mui.

(I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.) :-)

--Doc


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Meagen
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Jun-13-13, 03:56 AM (EDT)
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9. "RE: Various Corwin-related questions"
In response to message #4
 
   > So Corwin probably has metaphysical fetters on his power. But there are also likely practical and political ones as well.

Just consider the agnostics/atheists among the good guys. They regularly put their lives on the line, with the full belief that once they slip up, that's *it*. EOF. Complete oblivion. That's worth *major* Valhalla points. Are you going to take that away from them by letting them know in no uncertain terms that yes, there is an afterlife, and actually, they're already on the fast track to the good place?

--
With great power come great perks.


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Peter Eng
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Jun-13-13, 04:18 PM (EDT)
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13. "RE: Various Corwin-related questions"
In response to message #4
 
   >
>What she DOESN'T do is kill (Largo). Why? Because, metaphysically speaking
>(and the story is pretty up-front about that) it isn't TIME for him to
>die yet. The universe has decided that Largo exists for a reason and
>Skuld doesn't have the authority to contravene that reason just
>because she feels like it. She can operate around the edges ("Get out
>of my house and never, ever come back") but can't do more than that.
>

My interpretation of the whole matter was that for Gryphon to be who he needs to be, he has to be the one to destroy Largo. If he doesn't get that moment, there will be a weakness where he needs to have strength. On both a personal level and a universal level, Skuld would be absolutely against that happening.

Peter Eng
--
The universe doesn't revolve around him. But he does have a large hand in building one of the major gears.


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Polychrome
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Jun-12-13, 09:16 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: Various Corwin-related questions"
In response to message #1
 
  
>Possibly, but where's the sport in that? (Also, it might depend on
>whether his limiter was in place. With it off, he could conceivably
>cripple entire classes of Destroids with a thought, as in "no
>Atlas will work, anywhere, today.")

I have a friend who played a D&D character who claimed to be a god with this kind of power scale problem.
"Can you use your godly power to slay those orcs?"
"Those orcs specifically? No. I can kill all orcs everywhere."
"Can you make a light?"
"I can make a *sun*."

Polychrome


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