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Subject: "First Dates and Firefights"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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drakensis
Member since Dec-20-06
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Jun-15-13, 03:23 AM (EDT)
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"First Dates and Firefights"
 
   ...there were, what? Three different plot threads going on: Tau Ceti, Ohtori Academy, Babylon 5...

And EVERY time the story went from one to another I went "Wait, no, come back I want to see this one play out..." which ever thread I was leaving.

That's very impressive. I get the feeling I might have appreciated it more if I'd just re-read Clarion Call, admittedly. Oh well. I probably WILL re-read that one shortly anyway...

D.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: First Dates and Firefights mdg1 Jun-15-13 1
     RE: First Dates and Firefights Matrix Dragon Jun-15-13 2
         RE: First Dates and Firefights mdg1 Jun-15-13 3
             RE: First Dates and Firefights Gryphonadmin Jun-16-13 19
                 RE: First Dates and Firefights mdg1 Jun-16-13 22
  RE: First Dates and Firefights BZArcher Jun-15-13 4
  RE: First Dates and Firefights sideways Jun-15-13 5
     RE: First Dates and Firefights The Traitor Jun-15-13 6
  RE: First Dates and Firefights Mister Fnord Jun-15-13 7
     RE: First Dates and Firefights Mercutio Jun-15-13 8
         RE: First Dates and Firefights Offsides Jun-15-13 10
         RE: First Dates and Firefights Mister Fnord Jun-16-13 11
     RE: First Dates and Firefights mdg1 Jun-15-13 9
     RE: First Dates and Firefights Star Ranger4 Jun-16-13 18
     RE: First Dates and Firefights Gryphonadmin Jun-16-13 20
         RE: First Dates and Firefights JFerio Jun-16-13 21
  RE: First Dates and Firefights Mercutio Jun-16-13 12
     RE: First Dates and Firefights Meridias Jun-16-13 13
         RE: First Dates and Firefights Mercutio Jun-16-13 16
             RE: First Dates and Firefights Star Ranger4 Jun-16-13 17
                 RE: First Dates and Firefights Gryphonadmin Jun-16-13 24
                     RE: First Dates and Firefights Star Ranger4 Jun-17-13 40
                 RE: First Dates and Firefights Droken Jun-16-13 26
         RE: First Dates and Firefights JeanneHedge Jun-16-13 28
             RE: First Dates and Firefights Mercutio Jun-17-13 36
             RE: First Dates and Firefights Meridias Jun-17-13 50
                 RE: First Dates and Firefights JeanneHedge Jun-17-13 53
     RE: First Dates and Firefights mdg1 Jun-16-13 15
     RE: First Dates and Firefights Gryphonadmin Jun-16-13 23
         RE: First Dates and Firefights Bushido Jun-17-13 31
             RE: First Dates and Firefights Mercutio Jun-17-13 35
         RE: First Dates and Firefights BeardedFerret Jun-17-13 33
         RE: First Dates and Firefights Senji Jun-17-13 37
         RE: First Dates and Firefights Mercutio Jun-17-13 38
             RE: First Dates and Firefights Gryphonadmin Jun-17-13 57
                 RE: First Dates and Firefights zwol Jun-17-13 59
                 RE: First Dates and Firefights Mercutio Jun-18-13 62
         RE: First Dates and Firefights BobSchroeck Jun-17-13 39
             RE: First Dates and Firefights JeanneHedge Jun-17-13 54
                 RE: First Dates and Firefights pjmoyermoderator Jun-17-13 56
                 RE: First Dates and Firefights BobSchroeck Jun-18-13 63
  RE: First Dates and Firefights Matrix Dragon Jun-16-13 14
     RE: First Dates and Firefights Gryphonadmin Jun-16-13 25
         RE: First Dates and Firefights trigger Jun-16-13 27
             RE: First Dates and Firefights BeardedFerret Jun-17-13 32
  RE: First Dates and Firefights Verbena Jun-17-13 29
     RE: First Dates and Firefights Nathan Jun-17-13 41
         RE: First Dates and Firefights Verbena Jun-17-13 42
         RE: First Dates and Firefights Gryphonadmin Jun-17-13 43
         RE: First Dates and Firefights Croaker Jun-17-13 49
             RE: First Dates and Firefights Nathan Jun-17-13 55
                 RE: First Dates and Firefights Verbena Jun-17-13 60
                     RE: First Dates and Firefights Mephronmoderator Jun-18-13 61
     RE: First Dates and Firefights Gryphonadmin Jun-17-13 45
         RE: First Dates and Firefights pjmoyermoderator Jun-17-13 47
             RE: First Dates and Firefights Gryphonadmin Jun-17-13 48
  RE: First Dates and Firefights Polychrome Jun-17-13 30
     RE: First Dates and Firefights Croaker Jun-17-13 52
  RE: First Dates and Firefights Senji Jun-17-13 34
  RE: First Dates and Firefights zwol Jun-17-13 44
     RE: First Dates and Firefights Gryphonadmin Jun-17-13 46
         RE: First Dates and Firefights mdg1 Jun-17-13 51
         RE: First Dates and Firefights zwol Jun-17-13 58
  RE: First Dates and Firefights CGWolfgang Jun-20-13 64
     RE: First Dates and Firefights Gryphonadmin Jun-20-13 65
     RE: First Dates and Firefights Mercutio Jun-20-13 66
         RE: First Dates and Firefights Mephronmoderator Jun-20-13 67
             RE: First Dates and Firefights Mercutio Jun-20-13 68
                 RE: First Dates and Firefights The Traitor Jun-20-13 69
                 RE: First Dates and Firefights Senji Jun-20-13 70
                     RE: First Dates and Firefights SpottedKitty Jun-21-13 71

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mdg1
Member since Aug-25-04
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Jun-15-13, 07:31 AM (EDT)
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1. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #0
 
   Confused now... if Sagara isn't working for Kaname's parents...

Should I recognize Leyna from somewhere? I did a quick Google, but it didn't lead me anywhere productive.

Mario


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Matrix Dragon
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Jun-15-13, 08:01 AM (EDT)
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2. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #1
 
   >Confused now... if Sagara isn't working for Kaname's parents...

We've known all along Sosuke wasn't working for Mars Division. It was confirmed back in DSM. It does look like he's at least scored some solid respect from the people that have no doubt been heavily investigating him and his mission. Garibaldi's irritation with him, and pointing out that he'd have been able to do his job better operating openly in this case really delighted me.

The reveal of the source of Kanames abilities is an interesting one, especially since I've been curious about the UF Invid ever since Ariel made an appearance in the second Sterling mini-series, especially given how the Invid were apparently just GENOM built mecha originally. This also leads to the amusing scenario where Sosuke is weirder then the multi-species hybrid with a somewhat glitchy telepathic link to a the Hivemind.

The scene with Rory and the Roman Legion is already well on it's way to being one of my favorite UF moments. But then, I'm a sucker for anything involving the Last Centurion.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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mdg1
Member since Aug-25-04
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Jun-15-13, 08:09 AM (EDT)
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3. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #2
 
   >>Confused now... if Sagara isn't working for Kaname's parents...
>
>We've known all along Sosuke wasn't working for Mars Division. It was
>confirmed back in DSM. It does look like he's at least scored some
>solid respect from the people that have no doubt been heavily
>investigating him and his mission. Garibaldi's irritation with him,
>and pointing out that he'd have been able to do his job better
>operating openly in this case really delighted me.

Point. I'm not as good at keeping all of this in my head as I used to be. :)

>The scene with Rory and the Roman Legion is already well on it's way
>to being one of my favorite UF moments. But then, I'm a sucker for
>anything involving the Last Centurion.

Although I could see him being snarkier regarding Amy.

"Do you guard the Pandorica still?"

"Only during study hall."

Mario


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-16-13, 02:10 PM (EDT)
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19. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #3
 
   >Although I could see him being snarkier regarding Amy.
>
>"Do you guard the Pandorica still?"
>
>"Only during study hall."

Oh, Amy was never the Pandorica. In the final analysis, that was ultimately just a box.

Amy was the hope that remained at the bottom when everything else had escaped.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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mdg1
Member since Aug-25-04
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Jun-16-13, 03:24 PM (EDT)
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22. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #19
 
   True, but Amy was the bit Rory cared about....

Mario


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BZArcher
Member since Nov-8-05
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Jun-15-13, 02:53 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #0
 
   Man, that was satisfying. So nice to see the pieces starting to fit together.

Boy, I can't wait to see exactly what kind of train wreck Nanami's recruiting mission is going to be...

---------------------------
We will BUILD heroes!


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sideways
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Jun-15-13, 05:57 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #0
 
   So, the Hand of Wrath and the Hand of Doom are both right hands. This indicates that they are not meant to be wielded by the same person. It also means that the set could conceivably be any number strong, whereas if it were the Left Hand of Wrath that would heavily imply them to be a matched pair. Doom is not a cardinal sin, thankfully, which rules out the proposed theory as to theme.

Also I like the Castellan.


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The Traitor
Member since Feb-24-09
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Jun-15-13, 09:15 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #5
 
   Or that the original wielder was one of the many creatures to have had multiple sets of arms...

---
"Yeah, I'm definitely going to hell/But I'll have all the best stories to tell" -- Frank Turner, The Ballad of Me and My Friends

"How shalt you be known, mighty warrior?" "MACHAAAAMP!"


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Mister Fnord
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Jun-15-13, 09:36 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #0
 
   Some thoughts, in no particular order:

* The way the battle for Tau Ceti was handled was different. Normally when we get to Big Fight Scene/Episode we tend to follow the leads into the scrum, whereas here we really don't for half or more of the story. We see the scrum (it seemed anyway) mostly second or third-hand via news reports and reactions from characters on B6. It's an interesting change of pace.

* Akio seems to be getting all his ducks in a row, which is alarming but considering that that's usually when everything goes to hell for him I'm not too alarmed. I have endless faith in Akio's ability to fuck himself over at the vital moment. :)

* For long-time viewers this ought to be familiar in the vague outlines. The countdown clock for Day of Infamy and the Federation Civil War just started with Billy Clark's ascension to the purple.

* A hypothesis: The attack on Tau Ceti came completely out of nowhere with none of the usual diplomatic posturing or sabre-rattling expected from belligerent nations, on the same day most of the Federation's executive branch dies in a starship accident. A paranoid might claim that someone needed to keep the IPO's heavy hitters busy enough to not arrive on the scene and start an independent investigation before anyone else.

* So Anakin's got himself a Right Hand of $Noun now. If he and Hellboy fistbump, what happens? It'd be either 'nothing' or 'something really bad/awesome.'

* So Nanami 'exceeded instructions,' eh? That's a phrase that's loaded with import but doesn't tell us a goddamn thing. Nicely played. I wonder what it means in truth... and if we'll ever find out.

* You know, with the Invid thing I finally get where Kaname's little mental infodumps come from. That just occurred to me.

* All in all, looking forward to seeing where this goes next as the Black Rose gets more proactive and Clark starts dismantling everything good and decent about the Federation.

--
Mr. Fnord, just thinking aloud.


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Mercutio
Member since May-25-13
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Jun-15-13, 10:26 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #7
 
   >* The way the battle for Tau Ceti was handled was different. Normally
>when we get to Big Fight Scene/Episode we tend to follow the leads
>into the scrum, whereas here we really don't for half or more
>of the story. We see the scrum (it seemed anyway) mostly second or
>third-hand via news reports and reactions from characters on B6. It's
>an interesting change of pace.

The Second Battle of Tau Ceti (Operation TRIDENT) can be viewed in more specifics in the Featured Documents section: Preliminary Report: Operation TRIDENT

That's four years old, though, so I don't believe everything in it is still correct. I think they get word of Santiago's death much later than 1933 local on MArch 6th, for example, but I'd need to go check to make sure.

-Merc
Keep Rat


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Offsides
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Jun-15-13, 11:27 PM (EDT)
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10. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #8
 
   >That's four years old, though, so I don't believe everything in it is
>still correct. I think they get word of Santiago's death much later
>than 1933 local on MArch 6th, for example, but I'd need to go check to
>make sure.

I just realized that it's been almost 5 years since Clarion Call was released, yet it feels like it was much more recent than that. I guess that's a testament to the amount of other stuff that's been released to keep the world active, such that the time between "major releases" doesn't really matter...

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>


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Mister Fnord
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Jun-16-13, 02:26 AM (EDT)
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11. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #8
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-16-13 AT 03:10 AM (EDT) by pjmoyer (moderator)
 
>The Second Battle of Tau Ceti (Operation TRIDENT) can be viewed in
>more specifics in the Featured Documents section:
>Preliminary Report: Operation TRIDENT

Which is a fair point. My point is that normally we'd see the battle in the main event with the TRIDENT AAR being more of a sidepoint. Y'know, we'd see the interdictor getting taken or the battle for the power station... stuff like that. This time around we don't, so we have to let our imaginations do the heavy lifting for us. ;)

--
Mr. Fnord is totally down with that, btw.


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mdg1
Member since Aug-25-04
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Jun-15-13, 11:14 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #7
 
   >* So Anakin's got himself a Right Hand of $Noun now. If he and Hellboy
>fistbump, what happens? It'd be either 'nothing' or 'something really
>bad/awesome.'

I cannot resist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64Jv8zbUsf4

Mario


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Star Ranger4
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Jun-16-13, 10:40 AM (EDT)
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18. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #7
 
   >* So Anakin's got himself a Right Hand of $Noun now. If he and Hellboy
>fistbump, what happens? It'd be either 'nothing' or 'something really
>bad/awesome.'
>
I'd argue that the intent behind the fist bump matters most here. if it was a "hell yeah, we did it" one, it would be the first; if it was actually a punch/counterpunch situation; the second.


Of COURSE you wernt expecting it!
No One expects the FANNISH INQUISITION!
RCW# 86


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-16-13, 02:15 PM (EDT)
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20. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #7
 
   >* The way the battle for Tau Ceti was handled was different. Normally
>when we get to Big Fight Scene/Episode we tend to follow the leads
>into the scrum, whereas here we really don't for half or more
>of the story. We see the scrum (it seemed anyway) mostly second or
>third-hand via news reports and reactions from characters on B6. It's
>an interesting change of pace.

That was the basic idea, yeah. One of the reasons this episode hung fire for so long was that I didn't want to just do Another Big Fight Scene Episode. We'd seen it before, in Valiant Rose and The Revolution Will Be Televised, and heck, even on Tau Ceti before in Hunter Rose. What happened in the return to Tau Ceti did have to be presented - it'd been all set up and it was an important point in the overall storyline - but I wasn't satisfied with my early attempts at presenting it straight. It was a bit stale.

I believe it was Phil who suggested that we do it the way it ended up being done, with most of the actual operation viewed from new, outside or semi-outside perspectives. Certainly his positioning of the DSMP characters and their situation provided a ready-made carrier wave for that approach to be transmitted on.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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JFerio
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Jun-16-13, 02:17 PM (EDT)
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21. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #20
 
   >I believe it was Phil who suggested that we do it the way it ended up
>being done, with most of the actual operation viewed from new, outside
>or semi-outside perspectives. Certainly his positioning of the DSMP
>characters and their situation provided a ready-made carrier wave for
>that approach to be transmitted on.

Which does explain why it finally "foamed over the memory cell", it was a matter of having the correct catalyst presented to what was already present in the mixture. :)





Jeffrey 'JFerio' Crouch
'It'll be all right... I think.' - Nene Romanova



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Mercutio
Member since May-25-13
47 posts
Jun-16-13, 04:25 AM (EDT)
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12. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #0
 
   Man, a new Symphony story.

It's been what, five years? A lot's happened. Manhunt. Star-Crossed. DSM Panic. Virginia Shepard; I believe the last time an SoS story was published Mass Effect II hadn't even hit shelves. Split Infinitive got trashed and re-worked. Bunch of other things.

It might be beneficial to weave some of the mini-stories into the official chronology at this point; someone trying to jump into this one directly S5M2 might be a little bit lost without reading some DSMP.

Regardless, it's an exciting time.

>That made it seem
>a bit like she had always imagined the towns on Rannoch would be now,
>eerie and empty. Did the geth live in the cities they'd driven their
>creators out of? Did they have any understanding of the architecture,
>know what the monuments stood for - did they have any feelings at all
>about the people they'd displaced all those centuries ago? She'd always
>wondered.

This is tangential to the main thrust of the story, but I personally cannot wait until Tali (and us) find out about this. I love me some geth. I'd like to take this moment to express the hope that in UF, there are 1) non-Unicron-worshipping geth, and 2) that there are quarians still alive and well on Rannoch. (The latter is responsible for an entire sub-genre of ME fanfics that I tend to really enjoy.)

>Tali's grandmother's name was also Tali, which occasionally made
>for confusion in its own right. Tali'Shukra vel Halo - Tali the Elder,
>as she was known around the fleet - was quite a famous woman in the
>Quarian Union.

Hmm, interesting. I take it Tali the Elder didn't take her husband's name when she married Vedik'Zorah? Or at least went back to her maiden name after he died?

Her descendants clearly have patronymics; Rael is Rael'Zorah, not Rael'Shukra. And it's not a male/female thing, because Tali the Younger is ALSO Tali'Zorah, not Tali'Motherslastname.

>Corwin Ravenhair was in a hurry. He had a fleet rendezvous to
>get to, and he was already behind schedule because he'd stopped on the
>way to the hangar in order to kinda-sorta get married. As such, there
>were -many levels- on which he really didn't have time for Old Home Week
>featuring Succubi I Have Known right now.

I feel like I should be able to make some sort of filthy double entendre involving Corwin's use of the plural form of succubus and the word "known" there.

... I got nothing.

>"Oh! I can do that." Thor strode forward, seized Nanami by the
>scruff of the neck, and picked her up with no more effort than he
>would've shown picking up a sofa cushion.

Given their relative sizes (seriously, Nanami needs to eat something) I sort of imagine that Thor could get his entire hand around her neck if he wanted to. :)

>"And heading straight into a battle, no less," Tali said wryly.
>"Father would be furious. Oh, wait, he is anyway."
>
>Utena grinned and made a dismissive gesture. "He didn't -have-
>to sign the waiver.

That's a dirty, dirty, lie, Utena. :)

>"He can see things before they happen," Aarok Sifu-Dyas had said
>once to Anakin Skywalker's mother. "It's a Jedi trait."
>
>Technically that wasn't quite correct - it was a trait shared by
>some who were strong in the Force, not specifically anything to do with
the philosophy of the Jedi Knights - but it was true as far as it went.

From what little we've been told of him, the UF flavor of Sifu-Dyas sounds like he was extremely old school; that is, he'd take the position that everyone who is strong in the force should, properly, be a member of the Jedi Order, which has a monopoly on the proper way of developing and extending ones connection to said force.

>Kaname didn't really understand the curious psychic connection
>she had to her Invid heritage. The crossroads of the human, Meltran,
>and Invid genetic lines, with the added wild card of Detian heredity
>thrown in for good measure, was a place that had been visited precisely
>twice in the history of biology so far, and it was as a result not very
>well-charted. What she knew was that she sometimes brushed the vast
>collective semiconscious of her father's people, and sometimes plunged
>headfirst into it, and there seemed to be little controlling when it
>happened or how thoroughly.

... oh, right. She's part Invid.

Well, I had all kinds of weird theories about what being Whispered might mean in the context of UF, and I missed the simple, obvious explanation right under my nose.

>There was, she noted, no sign of her supposed bodyguard, Sosuke
>Sagara. She must have managed to lose even him in the course of
>wandering into this hellhole, which was ironic given that she hadn't
>even been trying to do that.

Waiiiitttt for it...

>A moment later the bulkhead segment just ahead of her and to her
>right burst inward with a sound like a hundred popped paper bags, nearly
>clobbering the salarian and filling the dead-end hallway with smoke. As
>Kaname coughed and stared in disbelief, a hand emerged from the char-
>edged hole the implosion had left in the bulkhead, seized her by the
>arm, and pulled her through.

At first, I was thinking "great timing, Sagara." Then I thought about it some.

Sosuke doesn't seem like the kind of guy who'd rely upon something as nebulous as good timing to be there when his protectee needs him.

So I went back and checked the protocol. I noticed one thing immediately that I hadn't before; the protocol does not, in fact, state that anything not explicitly allowed under its rules is forbidden.

So now I'm operating on the assumption that Sosuke has Kaname chipped, or he's carrying some manner of very sophisticated biometric scanner that can home in on her. Because that's not technically forbidden, and assuming there isn't additional covert backup in place Sosuke would probably consider such a thing a vital necessity.

>"Underworld network, what are you talking about? You mean those
>guys aren't just... muggers?"
>
>"Hardly," said Sosuke flatly. "They're 'talent scouts'. This
>level is one of the chief sources of supply for the galaxy's illicit
>organ and tissue transplant industry... and you are obviously a very
>healthy specimen."

Conspiracy mongering time!

Sosuke has managed to convey the impression that Saleon and his boys were after Kaname's precious bodily fluids without actually saying so directly. Maybe I'm reading into that to much, could be just his choice of words.

But I have my doubts.

Kaname, while walking through downbelow, would have presented an air of an outsider and potential victim, yeah. But she also would have presented an air of "well-heeled, upper-class, is down here because she got lost" rather than "hey boys, fresh fish!"

That might be enough to for some skell to try and shiv her for her credit chip. But... well, a ring like Saleon's is going to want to prey on the detritus of society, people nobody is going to miss them. With someone who is radiating "I am just here because I got lost; I'm actually kind of fancy" you run the risk that they're important. That if they don't show up somewhere in six hours Garibaldi is going to sweep through brown sector with everyone he has and turn the place upside down. Big risk to run just for some healthy organs. Maybe stick to the usual derelicts instead.

So I don't think they were after Kaname as a convenient source of organs at all. I think that word is out in the underworld that someone will pay top dollar for Kaname specifically, she got recognized, and Saleon decided today would be an awesome day to get paid. THAT makes her worth the risk; you stash her in a stasis pod somewhere until the furor dies down and then get her quietly off-station to the buyer.

I could be reaching.

>Today she saw with her own eyes that he was not just a soldier
>but, under the right conditions, a warrior - a fierce and merciless
>killer of men.

I very, very much like the way you differentiate the way Sosuke, who is not (and probably never will be) a Duelist, fights compared to the way Duelists do. Even in life-or-death battles against multiple opponents, Duelists tend to be... well, fancy. It might not even be a deliberate choice TO be fancy, it's just sort of how their combat disciplines work. To a large extent, even in life or death struggles, it's about the art of the fight.

That's not how Sosuke rolls:

>He cut down the salarian too swiftly for her to even
>follow exactly how he'd done it, took his blaster, and dropped three of
>his confederates before they'd even had a chance to react to their
boss's demise. Startled, the rest of that group fell back, all but the
>man with the Sternsnacht pistol.

Sosuke is a soldier. (I'd quibble with the 'true warrior' stuff, but.) He's about economy of force and about accomplishing the mission. And like the very best soldiers, he probably doesn't actually like employing violence very much, which is why it's so swift and decisive when he does.

It's excellent writing and I enjoy the dichotomy.

>Sternsnacht heavy anti-matériel pistol, the faintest of whispers
>said in the back of Kaname's head. Manufactured on Dutch Valeria.
>Single-shot break-open pistol. Fires 21mm hyper-velocity fin-stabilized
>discarding-sabot kinetic kill vehicle. Primary use: disabling of
>vehicles. Extremely unsafe to use in pressurized habitat environments.
>Also, recoil will break an ordinary human's arm in three places.

You know, right up to this point I was planning to make some kind of comment on how that hand-cannon couldn't really be that dangerous to the outer hull. I mean, Babylon 6 isn't just a diplomatic outpost, it's a military one, and that hull was probably designed to withstand blasts from starship-grade weaponry.

... yeah, objection withdrawn.

>"It's safe to assume Earthforce has a flag officer aboard
>Clytaemnestra for this operation, but we don't have any intel on who
>that might be. Clytaemnestra's CO is Captain Hanna Davidson, Earthforce
>Academy Class of '95, an experienced officer who commanded a cruiser
>during the pacification of Proxima Centauri a few years back. Assuming
>they haven't made any major personnel changes, Tenth SAC is under one of
>the Earthforce Marines' hard-chargers, Major General Westford Drake. He
>might be overall flag for the operation; he's senior enough."

37 is somewhat young to be a Captain, at least would be in the modern USN, and humans in the 25th century have longer lifespans and thus probably longer and more delayed careers as well. Captain Davidson must know... her?... trade very well. Either that, or she was promoted due to being politically reliable, which now that I think of it is rather more likely than less.

It's not going to stop her getting her ass kicked, of course.

I've long wondered; why wasn't the IPO/WDF involved in the Proxima Centauri conflict? I'm guessing it was politically untenable for them to be; the IPO didn't have much of a fleet back then, and without Federation support it might have been tricky to involve Zeta Cygni (which has an elected civilian government these days) and the WDF directly.

>Utena sat back in her conn and sighed as the viewer returned to
>a forward view of hyperspace.
>
>"It's not going to be one of the easy ones, is it, Miki?" she
>asked rhetorically.

Well, she made it LOOK easy, at least. Operation TRIDENT went off with casualties that are downright miraculous and an insanely lopsided butchers bill. I remain unsure if Earthforce is really that incompetent or if Utena and Co. are just that good; I tend to lean towards the former, as so far every ranking officer in Earthforce we've seen who isn't named John Sheridan has been both an idiot and a tactical incompetent.

>If you're a legitimate PSO, we've
>got procedures for that, you know. You didn't have to sneak your kit
>through the checkpoint - hell, you could have carried all the gear you
>wanted if you'd just bothered to let us know what you were here for."

That actually sounds kind of silly. If a Blue Suns squad shows up B6 is going to let them just walk into the station in full kit so long as their IDs check out? They'd be legitimate Private Security Officers, after all; they have a corporate charter and contracts and everything.

>Sosuke nodded, following him to the outer office. "Affirmative.
>Miss Chidori is unlikely to be in any further danger - I believe her
>encounter with the criminal element of Brown 21 was a simple accident -

Do you now.

Assuming he's not lying, Sosuke might want to check in with whoever his intel officer back at home is. Just to be sure.

>The Ikazuchi in question, like its older sister ships, was a
>blocky, slab-sided vessel, long and narrow with massive sublight
>thrusters sticking out the back end. These thrusters were going full
>burner, propelling the ship towards the station relentlessly.

Aesthetic nitpick: possibly consider subbing in "full burn" for "full burner."

>Ivanova wondered if the ship was going to attempt
>something as foolhardy as ramming the station, but her concern was
>unfounded. As she watched, the carrier rapidly slowed, coming to a halt
>two-thirds of the way to the station.

Pedantic nitpick: is the Ikazuchi classed as a BC or a CV? The text makes that unclear. I went trawling through past stories and even, god help me, looked at the 2417 technical readout.

>The guy couldn't handle even a simple meet-and-greet
>down at DSM; who knew how he would behave at a full-out wedding
>reception?

You gotta wonder what he made of Akio.

>Mizuki had never really bought into his line about
>being a soldier, and had been somewhat concerned that Kaname and Lindsey
>had swallowed it hook and line, but given the fractured reports she'd
>gotten from Dean Montaign

You might not want to use "line" twice in rapid succession as a metaphor like that.

(Note: I'm not trying to be a dick with these minor stylistic critiques. They are meant as productive suggestions.)

>If Earthdome's Foreign Ministry wasn't made
>aware of the invasion, that implies a rogue operation, albeit one
>sanctioned at the highest level: President Greeley exploiting his status
>as commander-in-chief of Earthforce to take action without the advice or
>consent of the Senate. He must hope to complete the reconquest before
>anyone can react and then present it to the Federation as a military
>fait accompli. That level of brinkmanship is inconsistent with his
>record - that's why the Cetiani and their defense coalition were caught
>so badly off-guard."

Gosh. It's almost as if Greeley, or his political masters, is deliberately trying to destabilize the entire Federation, rather than just trying to grab and hold as much power for Earth as he can.

But that's clearly insane. I must be imagining things.

>He waved a medical tricorder over Kaname's forehead,
>and then consulted its screen. "It should have taken her several more
>hours - a full night's sleep on top of the afternoon's she'd already had
>- for her neuroelectrochemistry to stabilize, but here it appears as if
>her mind has totally... reset, for lack of a better word." He looked at
>his readings again and smiled, his eyes twinkling. "-Fascinating.-"

In this, as in all of Julian Bashir's other scenes, I could actually HEAR Alexander Siddig saying the lines. This is not always the case with the vast army of expys living and dying in UF. Nicely done.

>Case in point: Preparations to move out from the beachhead at
>Tau City International Spaceport and commence the final, decisive
>assault on Government Plaza in the heart of the city.

I believe, but am not sure, in previous stories you've used the term "spacehead" rather than "beachhead" to describe such landings.

>By the time she
>took the decision to make that move, she had people spread out all over
>the city, all with different objectives and all at different stages of
>getting those objectives done, all converging on a single point. They
>all had to arrive at that point at roughly the same time, from the right
>directions, in the right numbers, or the big finale of the morning's
>hard work would fizzle rather than flash, and she'd be left,
>strategically speaking, holding a very big bag.

Utena is, of course, much better at this sort of thing than I am, but one hopes that as she gets more experience under her belt she learns not to set up big, complicated, set-piece battles like that. A sudden sally by Earthforce that decapitates any one of the multiple prongs of this elaborate, interdependent battle plan could just totally ruin her day; you really don't want everything to interlock so tightly.

>"Correction - now
>most of the Earthforce contingent is bugging out as well. Clytaemnestra
>just opened a metapoint and the whole task group exited through it,
>except the Marine assault ship and her remaining escort."

That's not going to do much for inter-service comity in Earthforce.

Yeah, sure, the Danzig exploding is kind of a big deal. But whoever was fleet flag in that operation bugged out with a naval contingent that was still capable of offering battle and abandoned the marines dirtside.

It may have been the correct tactical and strategic choice; attempting to punch back through the IPO/WDF cordon long enough to recover dropships was probably suicidal at best. But 1) if the positions had been reversed and HE'D had to recover Utena and Co., Jim Kirk would probably have tried to do just that, and 2) Earthforce Marines are unlikely to view the Navy saying "sorry, we got our asses kicked, you're on your own" with a great degree of sympathy.

>"Not at all," said Mikage. "I'm doing you a favor. Now do be
>quiet and let me work. These operations are quite delicate. In fact,
>it would've been better if you hadn't regained consciousness just yet.
>One does find all the screaming a bit distracting."

You know, I like Mikage and all, but he's a lot different than he was in Utena.

Then again, we're talking someone who died, then was brought back as some sort of weird shade haunting a building that might or might not have actually been real (and tricked into thinking Anthy was his dead sorta-girlfriends dead brother who he may or may not have been romantically linked with) and who died AGAIN after Akio had no further use for him, only to show up a third time because, oops, no, he wasn't quite done after all.

I guess some personality shifts are to be expected. I don't trust the guy further than I can throw him, but I kinda feel bad for him in a way that I utterly do not feel bad for, say, Touga.

>Utena and a black-armored woman with a red stripe down her
>right gauntlet back-to-back in the middle of the plaza, Utena fending
>off a shockstick-armed trooper with her sword while the woman in black
>armor blazed away at something offscreen with a curiously antique
>marksman rifle

Y'know, I get that Utena is the lead-from-the-front type, I do, but generally speaking if a General ends up involved in direct combat without a very, very good reason (like Theodore Roosevelt Jr. volunteering to be the only General to go ashore in the first wave at Normandy, because someone of that rank HAD to be there to assess the battle as it unfolded) it means something has gone wrong.

>"Think about what you just said," Maya said. "I mean, I realize
>you're from an old-line military family, Kaname, but... " She gestured
>to the screen. "Kids from our school in the middle of THAT crap?
>That's crazy. THEY'RE crazy." She shook her head. "I'm as impressed
>as the next girl at how they're handling it, but what are they even
>DOING there? I mean, minors in a war zone?"
>
>"Yeah, when their parents had to sign that thing that said
>'yeah, we know, this club does dangerous stuff, it's OK,' I bet they
>weren't really thinking of this," Mizuki agreed.
>
>"That's not - " Kaname said, but then ground to a halt as she
>realized there was really nothing she could reasonably say to that.

Maya and Shiori are very smart girls.

The only thing I have to add to their critiques is that, if I were an enemy of Utena, Kaitlyn, or the Duelists and their hangers-on in general... I would very much like to arrange for one of the younger Duelists to die during one of these excursions, preferably one whose parents really had not understood the whole "child soldier" aspect of the experience. The resulting legal and political shitstorm would be ENORMOUS.

(Of course, killing a Duelist is pretty hard. If I had the resources and patience, I'd create my own then arrange for them to die at a convenient time.)

... I am not a supervillain. Stop looking at me.

>Maya blinked at him. "Sorry, what?"
>
>"In a conventional force scenario," Sosuke explained, "properly
>trained and equipped youth or even child combatants can be an amazingly
>effective asset for the side willing to deploy them."

And there's Sosuke's dark side. Made the more creepier because, well, he's a hundred percent right.

> <Corwin. What's up?>
> <Im Westen nichts Neues,> Corwin replied, <except I can't find
> Nanami anywhere.>
>
> <Nanami from Big Time TV? Pretty sure she and Truss are still
> at the broadcast... thing... they set up 'cross the way there.>
>
> <Wrong Nanami. I'm talking about Nanami-from-Cephiro Nanami.>

Heh. The day that "Nanami" stopped meaning "Nanami Jinnai" and instead "Nanami Kiryyu" to me was the day I knew I -really- liked Utena.

Also, man, this is probably the only time that both Nanami's are going to be in the same locale and there wasn't some sort of hilarious meeting as they both answered "What?" simultaneously a bunch of times and compared life stories. (Nanami Kiryuu won.)

>"Oh, but I -like- that story, Kana-chan!" a cheerful voice
>announced from the doorway.

Oh man. Please be who I think it is.

> Kaname's head snapped around. "... Kyoko?

Yesssssssss.

>"Spirit of Light, you're just in time." Kaname gestured to
>the two women, who nodded in turn. "Sosuke, these are my 'aunts',
>Kyoko Tokiwa and Teletha Testarossa, but you can call her Tessa,
>everybody does. They've been in Mars Division with mom and Aunt Maia
>since forEVER."

Ugh.

I know that "Teletha" is her proper, canonical, creator-confirmed actual name from Full Metal Panic. But lord, that is an UGLY romanization. Would "Theresa" have been so hard for them? Really?

>"That is the Hand of Wrath," Mikage replied. "One of a set of
>stone hands wrought, I believe, by the same artificers who made the
>Blazing Throne and the Seed of Destruction at the dawn of time. It is a
>thing of some infamy; its name appears, in translation of course, in the
>legends of cultures throughout the universe."

Hell really does have all the BEST toys, doesn't it?

Also, that thing is unspeakably ancient. I mean, geez. If what Mikage is saying is true, it's older than Thor's hammer or Odin's spear. It's older than Boba Fett's genuine Mandalorian battle-armor. It was old before Cybertron's sun went out, before Primus came to this universe. It's older than GALLIFREY. It was probably old before the Milky Way condensed from a cloud of gas and dust.

Given the name, Anakin may, in fact, have on his right hand the very first implement forged in Hell at the dawn of time time that was intended to be an instrument by which one being could kill another.

... that's awesome.

>"So, how long will you be gone?"
>Was it her, or was there a brief moment of hesitation before he
>continued? "Most likely the full two weeks. Commercial travel to the
>Corporate Sector is not optimal at the best of times, and given the
>circumstances I am unable to arrange for sponsored transport."

Hmm. So TechCom is in fact out of the Corporate Sector.

This does two things for me. First, it makes me immediately suspicious. That place is a festering sore on the galaxy and was, apparently, never properly conquered and reconstructed after the War of Corporate Occupation. This may be unfair of me, but I instantly distrust any company based out of it.

Second, it means that Sosuke was probably telling the truth when he laid that "classified" line on Kaname back in the day. Corporations, if I understand properly, ARE the government in the Corporate Sector, so yeah, they can totally classify information.

>"I... I had heard that you were... alive again," said Anthy
>hesitantly. "Corwin said he'd seen you at Christmas."

I don't know that alive is the proper term for what Nanami is now.

>"Anyway... you're probably wondering what I'm doing
>here."
>
>"A bit, yes," Anthy admitted.
>"Well, it depends on who you ask," Nanami said. "If you asked
>my boss, he'd say I'm supposed to sow doubt and discontent among you.

Akio says a lot of things.

>"There's a... compulsion... in me. Part
>of what makes me... what I am now. It -drives- me to do just that.
>It's gnawing at my guts right now, as I speak to you. But I'm not going
>to give into it." Her smoke-grey eyes snapped open, fixing on Anthy's
>with a sudden blazing fierceness. "I refuse."

Nanami continues to justify my total and complete love for her.

There's a kind of awful, terrible beauty in what Akio, what SURTUR, has done to her. UF is an imperfect universe (and I kind of like it that way) but generally speaking both the just and the wicked get their proper rewards.

Only the system didn't quite work that way for Nanami, did it? Her reward for doing the right things for once in a life that had, until that point, been a vain and shallow thing was getting hooks in set in her soul and dragged down into the pit.

That's terrible and awe-inspiring all at the same time.

>You must be on your guard. Don't underestimate the
>thing that was your brother, because he's so, SO much more now than he
>was when you killed him. He hates you and all you love with a passion
>that moved the Great Fire himself.

I'm sure a million other people have pointed similar things out, but... one the things "great" can mean is "immense." Or "large." Or other words connoting... bigness.

>nearly lost her balance, recovering with a sort
>of hopping step backward. Tears came to her eyes as she regarded the
>spot where the blonde had just been. That's -twice,- she thought, twice
>Nanami has put herself in harm's way to warn me. Twice she's suffered
>for it. Possibly even twice she's died for it.

I'll have more to say on this at the tail end, but for now, that whole sequence? By far the strongest of the entire story.

>I gather TRIDENT
>could really have used some Destroid coverage for the initial assault,
>rather than relying on getting the TCDF back up and running in short
>order - if that part of the plan had hit a snag the whole thing could've
>come undone." Gryphon shrugged. "Sometimes these things can't be
>helped, I guess. I mean, with that aerospace cover there's no way we'd
>have gotten a Destroid dropship through in the first wave."

Not to backseat drive, but isn't this what Valks are for? In battroid mode those things are essentially light Destroids, and they'd have no trouble booming past the aerospace cover.

>"You. Back here. -Now,-" Kaname said.
>There was an infinitesimal pause. "Miss Chidori?" Sosuke said,
>sounding faintly startled. "What's happened? I'm no longer on Jeraddo;
>I'm back on Babylon 6. Now awaiting transport to - "
>
>"I don't care where you think you're supposed to be going, damn
>you," Kaname snapped, surprising -herself- with the on-the-verge-of-
>tears tone in her voice. "I need you. Wait where you are. I'll come
>to you." Then, not waiting for him to protest further (if in fact he
>was going to), she cut the connection.
>
>Now what in the hell did I do that for?

Probably because unless I miss my guess, Kaname has some mild but definitely present PTSD. Counseling would probably be indicated.

>"It's not about YOU and it's not about ME, it's about EVERY
>CEPHIREAN and DON'T TELL ME TO CALM DOWN!" she snapped.

You rock, Wakaba.

>"Like all Vulcans, I am significantly telepathic," T'Par went
>on. "Should the Compromise of 2407 be abandoned, and the mandate of the
>Psi Corps be expanded into the rest of Federation space, my situation
>could become... awkward.

Does Clark have anywhere near the votes for that? And for that matter, does the Federation have the authority to implement it?

I'll be honest; the Federation seems pretty useless at anything other than organizing for the common defense. Most of it's citizens don't even seem to identify as "Federation citizens;" they identify as citizens of the Republic of Zeta Cygni or the Earth Alliance or the Republic of Bajor or suchly. T'Par here identifies as a citizen of Vulcan. Hell, before the EA reorganized itself it wasn't unusual for people to still identify themselves primarily as citizens of nation-states; that is, of sub-units of a sub-unit of the Federation. When you're doing politics at an interstellar level, this seems roughly equivalent to if I told people I was "a citizen of Monroe County" when asked.

Basically, the Federation seems like it's basically the European Union, but with it's own military. That is, not a strong polity, and certainly not capable of bullying powerful member states within it around. It doesn't even have a monopoly on the legitimate use of force within its borders, which is usually the sine qua non of being a sovereign entity.

While controlling all psions may be popular enough within the EA to keep the Psi Corps a going concern, I have a hard time seeing the rest of the Federation thinking it's a great idea. And even if they do, it doesn't seem like the Federation has a lot of power to interfere with its member-states internal affairs. It certainly doesn't have a universal guarantee of sentient rights or to representative government, for example.

It kinda seems like if Clark tries to make the Federation an appendage of the Earth Alliance, the rest of the Federation will simply go "no, fuck you" and bail on the whole thing, and they have their own non-Starfleet navies to back that up. And if Clark then tries to use Starfleet to enforce his will, Starfleet will simply fly to pieces as all the officers side with their home polities.

Of course, this assumes Clark is angling to gain and keep power and extend his control and preferred ideology across the galaxy. If he just wants to burn shit down... well.

>Akio seated himself behind his desk and sighed. "It had its
>moments," he replied. "Nanami exceeded her instructions."
>
>"As expected?" inquired the Castellan.
>
>"Precisely as expected," said Akio with a satisfied smile.

Okay. Well then.

Corwin, Utena, and Anthy aren't what you'd call vengeful people. They're not thrilled Akio still exists, and if they met him on the street in a context where they could lawfully murder his ass, they'd likely do so, but if he were to simply hang out in Muspelheim being all smug they'd let him do that forever, as they aren't the type to storm Hell just for the pleasure of killing him again.

Except.

Utena is a bonafide Prince. Corwin is some species of Knight and kind of Princely himself these days. Anthy is neither, but she's a witch and kind of a Princess (and not the kind of Princess who sits around in towers lamenting while wearing a whimple, the kind of Princess who fucking murders people with magic in their sleep if they cross her) and Akio has, right in front of their noses, dangled Nanami Kiryuu.

Because you know what Nanami Kiryuu is? She's a -maiden who needs rescuing from an evil king and his black knights-.

(For some values of maiden.)

Man, that is just... that's hitting ALL their buttons. At once. With a giant hammer.

I think maybe Akio wants them to come for Nanami in some way. Which probably means doing so is bad, bad news.

Well played, Akio. Well. Played.

-Merc
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Meridias
Member since Jun-9-12
12 posts
Jun-16-13, 05:25 AM (EDT)
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13. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #12
 
   >....bweh?
>-Merc
>Keep Rat

Wow. All I can say is "Holy hell, man. Vent much?" :)

*********************
Rock Is Dead. Long Live Paper And Scissors.


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Mercutio
Member since May-25-13
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Jun-16-13, 06:14 AM (EDT)
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16. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #13
 
  
>Wow. All I can say is "Holy hell, man. Vent much?" :)

When I sit down to review a story, I do NOT mess around. I go line-by-line. :)

It actually probably should have been it's own separate thread, really, but there was one already extant and I didn't want to double up.

-Merc
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Star Ranger4
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Jun-16-13, 10:34 AM (EDT)
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17. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #16
 
   >
>>Wow. All I can say is "Holy hell, man. Vent much?" :)
>
>When I sit down to review a story, I do NOT mess around. I go
>line-by-line. :)
>
>It actually probably should have been it's own separate thread,
>really, but there was one already extant and I didn't want to double
>up.
>
No, you did exactly right IMO Merc. In depth ones like yours are a lot rarer around here than they used to be; but back when they were they all went in the general commentary thread for the story. I was working one up myself, but you covered just about all the points I wanted to except one...

I'd argue that Souske probably doesn't have Kanami chipped; let us not forget that he's a soldier who's also a bodyguard rather than the other way around. Which seems to me that it just wouldn't have occurred to him and or he felt that he couldn't manage to do it without otherwise violating their protocols.

Also, I disagree with the theorem of Kanami saying don't go as being some sort of delayed stress reaction. Rather, I would submit that it was a subconcious realization via "the whispering" (and I also agree that I LOVE G's take on how to work that in) that maybe, just maybe there was more to it what happened in brown 21 than what it seemed. And or that between that incident and something 'whispered' and forgotten consciously she's realized that being away from DSM without Souske is leaving her exposed to whoever it is that is out to get her. Either way, its like later in the source material where she realizes that for all Souske's faults she's safer with him than without.

Now, as to the WHO it might be... I suspect someone high up in Psi Corps, or possibly even Clarke himself wanting to try and snap up one of the "whispered" who seemly is outside the normal 'safety' cordon that Mars Division provides. And that is why Souske was 'hired'.

My theory? that the 'company' Souske works for is actually owned by deniably by one of Gryphon's "Weapon 0" contacts; someone like Emma Frost, for example. Alternately, it could be directly owned in some way by Mars Division themselves. Which would give them very deniable assets that could be used for exactly something like this; which was part of the point of the weapon 0 project IIRC; assets that were seemly unconnected to the IPO or WDF in any way.

Ergo, when Kanami goes to DSM, Miranda and Thade go to G to say "she needs to be outside the 'net' but we need her safe too"; G talks to whoever, and BAM, insta contract with Tech, and Souske suddenly gets a new assignment. However, I do find it interesting that the remainder of "Mithril" are part of Mars Division; however, given Maia and MIranda's long standing association with names from Tolkien it makes sense in that regard. Only thing that feels different (not WRONG per sey; just different) here is that its Kanami who knows the rest of "Mithril" vs Souske


Of COURSE you wernt expecting it!
No One expects the FANNISH INQUISITION!
RCW# 86


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-16-13, 03:32 PM (EDT)
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24. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #17
 
   >I was
>working one up myself, but you covered just about all the points I
>wanted to except one...

Aw man, people didn't used to worry about that.

>Also, I disagree with the theorem of Kanami saying don't go as being
>some sort of delayed stress reaction. Rather, I would submit that it
>was a subconcious realization via "the whispering" (and I also agree
>that I LOVE G's take on how to work that in)

CWCD: Phil's. I signed off on it, though, 'cos it rocks. If I'd had to design Kaname's import myself I'd probably just have made it another metapsionic wild talent. Phil's is much better-integrated into the existing storyline (admittedly, not all of which you have yet seen, but, you know, workin' on that).

>Ergo, when Kanami goes to DSM, Miranda and Thade go to G to say "she
>needs to be outside the 'net' but we need her safe too"

I sincerely doubt Miri would bullshit her daughter the way she'd have had to be doing, to give the answers she gave in DSMP2.5, much less in the Medbay scene in S5M2, if this were the case. Among many other reasons, she's a shit liar. Blushes. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Star Ranger4
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Jun-17-13, 10:38 AM (EDT)
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40. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #24
 
   >I sincerely doubt Miri would bullshit her daughter the way she'd have
>had to be doing, to give the answers she gave in DSMP2.5, much less in
>the Medbay scene in S5M2, if this were the case. Among many other
>reasons, she's a shit liar. Blushes. :)
>
Fair nuff. Its just the kind of thing where everything seemed to click; especially with the rest of Mithril being Mars division. In theory, they could have pulled it off by not telling Miri, but there is a logic hole there you could drive a Star Destroyer though.


Of COURSE you wernt expecting it!
No One expects the FANNISH INQUISITION!
RCW# 86


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Droken
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Jun-16-13, 04:21 PM (EDT)
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26. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #17
 
   Personally I'm leaning in the direction Zaeed was in his phone call with Boba about the "who" and "why" questions. That being that protecting Kaname might just be his task for now. I wonder if Techcomm isn't being hired by some rather more nefarious group. The Corps, or even Ohtori. Could be Sagara's mostly meant to keep her safe but also in close reach. Not that he's aware of it of course.

-Droken

"Trust me, you don't really want
to know."


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JeanneHedge
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Jun-16-13, 08:06 PM (EDT)
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28. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #13
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-16-13 AT 08:09 PM (EDT)
 
>>....bweh?
>>-Merc
>>Keep Rat
>
>Wow. All I can say is "Holy hell, man. Vent much?" :)

What Merc did was c&c (comments and criticism) of the old school style. As implied above, that kind of thing is infinitely more useful to a writer willing to accept it (and, in some cases, infinitely harder on the writer's ego too) than 'I loved it' comments.

Jeanne
(whose last C&C type comment here was of the 'I loved it' variety)



Jeanne Hedge
http://www.jhedge.com
"Never give up, never surrender!"


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Mercutio
Member since May-25-13
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Jun-17-13, 05:36 AM (EDT)
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36. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #28
 
  
>What Merc did was c&c (comments and criticism) of the old school
>style.

For a part of me, it will always and forever be 1998, with me downloading my email via modem to see if John Biles has posted the next part of Daigakusei no Ranma to the FFML so I can talk about it.

-Merc
Keep Rat


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Meridias
Member since Jun-9-12
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Jun-17-13, 03:50 PM (EDT)
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50. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #28
 
   >What Merc did was c&c (comments and criticism) of the old school
>style. As implied above, that kind of thing is infinitely more useful
>to a writer willing to accept it (and, in some cases, infinitely
>harder on the writer's ego too) than 'I loved it' comments.
>
>Jeanne
>(whose last C&C type comment here was of the 'I loved it' variety)

Don't get me wrong. I'm not getting on his case in a "What was the point of THAT?" kind of way. If it provides feedback for these great stories, I'm all for it. I only posted it because of my natural smartalec-ness and lack of sleep.
If I offended anybody, I apologize.

*********************
Rock Is Dead. Long Live Paper And Scissors.


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JeanneHedge
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Jun-17-13, 06:32 PM (EDT)
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53. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #50
 
   >Don't get me wrong. I'm not getting on his case in a "What was the
>point of THAT?" kind of way. If it provides feedback for these great
>stories, I'm all for it. I only posted it because of my natural
>smartalec-ness and lack of sleep.
>If I offended anybody, I apologize.

I'm not the owner/operator, but see no need for apologies. If any, it may be me. At ACen this year I actually found myself explaining to someone what C&C of a fanfic was and how it could be useful. Not "old school," but actual comments and criticism... (no, I was not on the panel)

I was quite partial to a well done smart-alek MSTing. Too bad well done MSTings were a rare thing, even back in the day.

Jeanne


Jeanne Hedge
http://www.jhedge.com
"Never give up, never surrender!"


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mdg1
Member since Aug-25-04
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Jun-16-13, 05:55 AM (EDT)
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15. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #12
 
   If you go by the Faction Paradox cosmology, Gallifrey in fact is actually slightly OLDER than the dawn of time.

(But not the Big Bang. It's a subtle thing)

Mario


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-16-13, 03:28 PM (EDT)
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23. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #12
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-17-13 AT 03:36 AM (EDT)
 
>It might be beneficial to weave some of the mini-stories into the
>official chronology at this point; someone trying to jump into this
>one directly S5M2 might be a little bit lost without reading some
>DSMP.

That bears thinking about. The "mini-story" tool has rather exceeded its original spec - they were supposed to be specifically non-vital pieces of work, so that people not using the Forum for whatever reason wouldn't miss out on anything important, but keeping that kind of thing separate on the creative side proved to be a hassle and would've made for lost opportunities on both sides of the line. A tighter integration of presentation may well be called for now that such an integration has started occurring creatively...

>I'd like to take this moment to express the hope that in UF,
>there are (...)
>quarians still alive and well on Rannoch.

On Rannoch, almost certainly not. However, the Rannoch Hegemony was a fairly big space nation. Among Tali's people, there are persistent legends - more like articulated dreams, really - that there still exists, somewhere out on the far end of the old Hegemony where the Flotilla dared not go, at least one old colony which was passed over by the vicissitudes of the Morning War. It's a kind of quarian Shangri-La, or the kingdom of Prester John. Individual quarians tend to impress their own views upon it. Hardliners believe (or wish) that it's a place where the quarians won the Morning War and their geth were destroyed. Reconciliationists think the quarians and geth of the borderlands (not with a capital B) will have settled their differences before reaching the point where either side faced annihilation, and now live together in a peaceful and synergistic society. Those who most fervently wish the whole thing had never happened prefer to believe that, well, the whole thing never happened, the border geth never rose up in the first place and all is as it was.

None of these things is terribly probable, and if any of them did come to pass, no one has ever been able to establish contact with the world or worlds on which it may have happened. By 2410, most educated quarians think it's a pleasant fantasy, nothing more, and that nothing lives within the Perseus Veil now but the geth (if indeed the individual thinker in question perceives the geth as alive).

>Hmm, interesting. I take it Tali the Elder didn't take her husband's
>name when she married Vedik'Zorah?

No, that isn't the custom among quarians, at least in UF (no data existed about such conventions in the games that were out when Star-Crossed was written, and I haven't played the third one). Children usually take the name of their father's clan (though there are those in the modern day who challenge this as a quaint custom that is driving some of the noblest of the old clan names, such as Shukra, into extinction), but name changes upon marriage are rare.

>Given their relative sizes (seriously, Nanami needs to eat something)

She's not skinny, she's just small-boned.

>I sort of imagine that Thor could get his entire hand around her neck
>if he wanted to. :)

Pretty much, yes; in this case the phrase "scruff of the neck" is intended to indicate that he's holding onto her from behind rather than in front (then it'd be "seized her by the throat", which has rather different, more... confrontational... connotations). It's possible that she didn't bother to struggle because she responded to this stimulus as a cat would have, and went completely limp. Honestly, that's probably the best approach to take when Thor picks you up by the neck no matter which side of it his thumb is on.

>From what little we've been told of him, the UF flavor of Sifu-Dyas
>sounds like he was extremely old school; that is, he'd take the
>position that everyone who is strong in the force should, properly, be
>a member of the Jedi Order, which has a monopoly on the proper way of
>developing and extending ones connection to said force.

Many modern Jedi have trouble with that. The problem is largely historical. The ancient Jedi once adopted - and held for many centuries - the view that the Force is a universal thing and that there are many ways of perceiving and interacting with it, all equally valid for their own purposes, which should be respected and coexisted with. There were even ways of interlocking the various traditions to achieve spectacular cooperative results (kamor bakhva, for instance).

On the other hand, there was also the Sith-Yoma War and the Santovasku Purge. That kind of thing will stretch a being's commitment to philosophical diversity.

>... oh, right. She's part Invid.

Fortunately not the sluggy part.

>So now I'm operating on the assumption that Sosuke has Kaname chipped,

Leaving aside for a moment the way that just soared out over the left-field fence, 354 feet away from the very fine and delicate line that is the comedy-creepiness threshold of the DSMP scenario, Lindsey would know if that had happened. And she wouldn't have been very pleased about it, either.

>or he's carrying some manner of very sophisticated biometric scanner
>that can home in on her.

This is more likely.

>Big risk to run just for some healthy organs.

There's a fine thread of extremely dark comedy running through Dr. Saleon's intentions, actually: He thinks she's human. If he'd succeeded in his acquisition, he'd have discovered to his dismay that nothing he just acquired is of any use to anyone but its original owner. So he'd have incurred the complete shutdown of Brown Sector and the kind of search-and-destroy mission you only read about in Mark Bowden books for nothing.

He's almost better off having been killed the way he was.

That's right down in the far infrared of my personal humor range, but it's there.

>Sosuke is a soldier. (I'd quibble with the 'true warrior' stuff, but.)

I (or rather Kaname) didn't say "true". It's not a philosophical reflection, particularly - it's the distinction between a person who belongs to a uniformed armed force but may or may not be particularly into it (ISTR reading once about an Army study in which it was found that only about 10% of soldiers in combat even attempt to actually shoot anyone, which the Army, being the Army, found shocking and disgraceful), and a person whose vocation (not just his job) is the application of violence. It may not be a pleasant vocation, but a vocation, nonetheless.

If Kaname had had the luxury of considering it further, it would have occurred to her that those two conditions are separate bits in a person's configuration, and that in Sosuke's case what makes him special is that both of them are turned on. A lot of soldiers, as we see from the Army's math above, are not warriors. A lot of warriors - including a number of the Duelists - are not soldiers. A man (or woman - Virginia Shepard comes to mind) who is both is incredibly dangerous and incredibly safe to be with at the same time, if you're standing in the right region of his or her personal threat assessment Venn diagram. :)

>37 is somewhat young to be a Captain, at least would be in the modern
>USN, and humans in the 25th century have longer lifespans and thus
>probably longer and more delayed careers as well. Captain Davidson
>must know... her?... trade very well.

She didn't beat Jim Kirk's record, but it's a respectably early age for such a position. On the other hand, despite the longer overall lifespan, that doesn't really mean humans have slowed down in terms of what they do during those lives. If anything, they've stepped up the pace a bit compared with what we'd think of as normal. In most places, for instance, the majority age for a human or near-humanoid (based on various abstruse biological metrics) is 16 Standard years. (Which means that, in the Republic of Zeta Cygni where her passport comes from, in any case, Kaname's not in fact underage. She can vote, undertake legal contracts, join the Defense Force if she wanted, etc.) What most humans do instead is use that extra time to have several careers, often wildly differing from each other. DSM's own Arthur Haineley, for instance, served in the United Earth Navy for many years, then had a very successful career as a concert pianist, and then trained as a psychologist before becoming a youth counselor.

>I've long wondered; why wasn't the IPO/WDF involved in the Proxima
>Centauri conflict?

The IPO, as you note, didn't have a fleet yet. IPO operatives were involved in the ground war, though they didn't officially take a side; they were ostensibly there to try and protect civilians while the government (which was, after all, as legitimate as these things get in such a situation) and the resistance fought it out.

In practice, one imagines this neutrality was probably observed more in the breach than otherwise, one of many reasons why the Dome felt it necessary to dispense with them in the Alliance altogether after the Argentina incident in 2406.

As for the WDF, they had no dog in the fight. Their contract is with the Federation, not the Earth Alliance, and they mainly guard against external threats anyway. The WDF's charter does have the deeply buried "good of the galaxy" clause - the one invoked to justify, for instance, the Force's interference in the matter of the Salusian succession in 2015 - but Daver is very cautious about when he pulls that trigger, and at the risk of seeming a bit Darwinian about it, Proxima just wasn't big enough.

>so far every ranking officer in Earthforce
>we've seen who isn't named John Sheridan has been both an idiot and a
>tactical incompetent.

In fairness, you haven't seen that many, proportionally. On the other hand, of late it's an organization that's mostly run by its zampoliti, which, as the Soviet military repeatedly demonstrate in the 20th century, isn't really any way to run a railroad.

In Captain Davidson's case, I suspect she'd have done considerably better if she'd been allowed to manage the affair the way she wanted, but - as Jim Kirk has noted with chagrin many times during his career - in the 25th century, with instantaneous galactic telecommunications, a captain is virtually never really the final authority in these matters.

>That actually sounds kind of silly. If a Blue Suns squad shows up B6
>is going to let them just walk into the station in full kit so long as
>their IDs check out?

Sure, if they could demonstrate a genuine necessity for it. Operating at the squad level in a personal security situation is a pretty hard sell, but one Blue Sun with his kit and a proper contract in hand to look out for a specifically identified dignitary? Sure. Garibaldi would assign him a liaison officer, who would follow him around the entire time he was on station - strictly to provide backup and make sure things went according to plan, you understand - but that's because he doesn't like their faces. He likes Sosuke's. :)

>Pedantic nitpick: is the Ikazuchi classed as a BC or a CV?

It's a battlecarrier, so, sort of both. Carriers that can fight other capital ships without requiring extensive escorts are fairly commonplace in the UF universe. (Star Destroyers, Colonial battlestars, et al.)

>You gotta wonder what he made of Akio.

Somebody else's problem.

>Utena is, of course, much better at this sort of thing than I am, but
>one hopes that as she gets more experience under her belt she learns
>not to set up big, complicated, set-piece battles like that.

It wasn't entirely by design; she had to work with the situation she was handed. This, That, and The Other Thing all had to get done first, and she didn't have sufficient assets in hand to do them all without then having to rely on most of the forces she'd used to do them being available for reuse in the main dance.

>2) Earthforce Marines are
>unlikely to view the Navy saying "sorry, we got our asses kicked,
>you're on your own" with a great degree of sympathy.

Indeed. As the byplay between the Master Chief and Sgt. Stacker ("typical swabbies... ") indicates, such sentiments are not uncommon nor confined to Earthforce. They're joking around, of course, but there's a distinct element of "ha ha only serious" involved.

>I know that "Teletha" is her proper, canonical, creator-confirmed
>actual name from Full Metal Panic. But lord, that is an UGLY
>romanization. Would "Theresa" have been so hard for them? Really?

How is this our problem? Besides, I kind of like it. It's, I'unno, exotic. And fun to say.

>Also, that thing is unspeakably ancient. I mean, geez. If what Mikage
>is saying is true, it's older than Thor's hammer or Odin's spear. It's
>older than Boba Fett's genuine Mandalorian battle-armor. It was old
>before Cybertron's sun went out, before Primus came to this universe.
>It's older than GALLIFREY. It was probably old before the Milky Way
>condensed from a cloud of gas and dust.

Might not be older than Gallifrey, since Gallifrey exists outside the normal multiverse's timestream. The rest is probably true, though. If Mikage's right.

>>"I... I had heard that you were... alive again," said Anthy
>>hesitantly. "Corwin said he'd seen you at Christmas."
>
>I don't know that alive is the proper term for what Nanami is now.

It's a hair that would be too awkward to split in such a conversation. Biologically speaking, she's not dead and she's not undead (there are very specific and observable criteria for that).

>>"He hates you and all you love with a passion that moved the Great Fire
>>himself."
>
>I'm sure a million other people have pointed similar things out,
>but... one the things "great" can mean is "immense." Or "large." Or
>other words connoting... bigness.

That's true, that is.

As an aside, you stopped short of what is my personal favorite phrase in Nanami's speech:

"Think of that. A hatred so pure that the Enemy of All perceives it as beauty."

They say even the Daleks (well, you know, the bad Daleks) have a concept of beauty. It's probably a bit like Surtur's.

>Probably because unless I miss my guess, Kaname has some mild but
>definitely present PTSD. Counseling would probably be indicated.

Or at least a hug and a trip to the beach.

>Basically, the Federation seems like it's basically the European
>Union, but with it's own military.

Sort of more a combination of the UN and NATO, but yes. It's not supposed to be a strong polity. The United Galactica was a strong polity, and - once the Old WDF was out of the picture - that didn't end well. The Federation was an attempt to avoid making that mistake again. Its framers may well have made other, equally critical ones in the process, but then that's usually the way sapient affairs go.

>It certainly doesn't have a
>universal guarantee of sentient rights or to representative
>government, for example.

It's supposed to, but it rather lacks the teeth to enforce them.

>Corwin, Utena, and Anthy aren't what you'd call vengeful people.

Well, Anthy kind of is. She prefers it on a time scale that would make Klingon thought admirals start looking ostentatiously at their watches, is all.

>I think maybe Akio wants them to come for Nanami in some way. Which
>probably means doing so is bad, bad news.

Any comment I could make regarding this point would be giving something away one way or the other, so I believe I won't. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Bushido
Member since Apr-8-10
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Jun-17-13, 03:30 AM (EDT)
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31. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #23
 
   I think where he's drawing the idea of Quarians on Rannoch from is from one of my favorite sequences in Mass Effect 3 during which they reveal some of the Geth's perspective on history, most of which has been lost or sanitized by the Quarians including the fact that there were Geth sympathizers during the Morning War who fought to protect their Geth friends/servants. I assume the ME fan fiction sub-genre he's referring to relies on the premise that some of them survived.

--------
Wedge Defense Force General Order 12: "Try to avoid freaking the mundanes."


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Mercutio
Member since May-25-13
47 posts
Jun-17-13, 05:27 AM (EDT)
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35. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #31
 
   >I think where he's drawing the idea of Quarians on Rannoch from is
>from one of my favorite sequences in Mass Effect 3 during which they
>reveal some of the Geth's perspective on history, most of which has
>been lost or sanitized by the Quarians including the fact that there
>were Geth sympathizers during the Morning War who fought to protect
>their Geth friends/servants. I assume the ME fan fiction sub-genre
>he's referring to relies on the premise that some of them survived.

Kinda-sorta.

Basically, once it turned out that the geth were misunderstood, as opposed to a collection of hive mind Reaper-worshipping sumbitches, a number of people started thinking: "Huh. Assuming the geth were at least trying to conduct their war in as moral a way possible without allowing themselves to be genocided, it would actually have been very, very hard for them to kill EVERY quarian on Rannoch, assuming that they also took steps to preserve Rannoch's biosphere. Therefore, it is entirely possible there's been a remnant of the quarian people there, quietly rebuilding for the past three centuries."

This isn't true, of course, in ME canon. But it's an interesting enough idea that a lot has been done with it. In particular, Gregg Landsman's "Glorious Shotgun Princess" has used it to good effect; that story features a small (three million or so) quarian nation still living on Rannoch as of the time of ME2, and those quarians are less than enthused about repatriating the flotilla, who 1) outnumber them six to one, and 2) are the descendants of people they view as idiotic war criminals. The flotilla in turn regards them with a mix of suspicion (verging on 'all y'all are race traitors') and jealousy (the 'indigenous' quarians have perfectly functioning immune systems and can walk around without encounter suits just fine.)

-Merc
Keep Rat


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BeardedFerret
Member since Apr-21-08
337 posts
Jun-17-13, 04:28 AM (EDT)
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33. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #23
 
   >>It might be beneficial to weave some of the mini-stories into the
>>official chronology at this point; someone trying to jump into this
>>one directly S5M2 might be a little bit lost without reading some
>>DSMP.
>
>That bears thinking about. The "mini-story" tool has rather exceeded
>its original spec - they were supposed to be specifically
>non-vital pieces of work, so that people not using the Forum
>for whatever reason wouldn't miss out on anything important, but
>keeping that kind of thing separate on the creative side proved to be
>a hassle and would've made for lost opportunities on both sides of the
>line. A tighter integration of presentation may well be called for
>now that such an integration has started occurring creatively...

For what it's worth, DSM Panic seems like it could easily fit into an interlude or some similar device, as seen with Azalynn's Winter Holiday. A sort of 'Meanwhile, on Jerrado' for new readers.


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Senji
Member since Apr-27-07
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Jun-17-13, 05:50 AM (EDT)
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37. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #23
 
   >In Captain Davidson's case, I suspect she'd have done considerably
>better if she'd been allowed to manage the affair the way she wanted,
>but - as Jim Kirk has noted with chagrin many times during his career
>- in the 25th century, with instantaneous galactic telecommunications,
>a captain is virtually never really the final authority in these
>matters.
>
I expect Jim Kirk has learned the method of The Final Report; and probably the WDF and the IPO are comparatively tolerant of Captains who Solve Things even if they don't let their shoulders be jogged.

Earthforce, OTOH, even in the original canon before the takeover weren't known for such enlightenment :-)

S.


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Mercutio
Member since May-25-13
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Jun-17-13, 07:01 AM (EDT)
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38. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #23
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jun-17-13 AT 07:06 AM (EDT)
 
>That bears thinking about. The "mini-story" tool has rather exceeded
>its original spec - they were supposed to be specifically
>non-vital pieces of work, so that people not using the Forum
>for whatever reason wouldn't miss out on anything important,

I actually only started using the forums (in that I'd come here and read them) a couple-three years ago, and it was because I'd ask Phil "Have I missed something? Who the hell ARE these people" and he'd say "Oh, they're from the mini-stories. There's a bunch of them that AREN'T in the omnibuses."

More generally, a number of the "Mini" stories are in fact at this point LONGER than stand-alone stuff in the Golden Age and Exile sections.


>On Rannoch, almost certainly not. However, the Rannoch Hegemony was a
>fairly big space nation. Among Tali's people, there are persistent
>legends - more like articulated dreams, really -
>
> (snip)
>

That's a fascinating look into the sort of stories the quarians tell themselves ABOUT themselves during their long exile.

>No, that isn't the custom among quarians, at least in UF (no data
>existed about such conventions in the games that were out when
>Star-Crossed was written, and I haven't played the third one).

The third one has some fascinating tidbits about quarian/geth history (for example, in ME, it turns out that the geth LET the flotilla go; they'd won and saw no reason to pursue the quarians through the relay) but nothing specifically about their naming conventions.

Oh, wait, no; there was one thing. They don't have a separate signifier for "lives on a planet" or "lives on a ship" like you do in UF. In ME, if you're a quarian who resettles on a planet, you're just "vas Planetname."

Re: not the playing the third one, lord knows I have my own giant stack of unplayed games, but if you haven't actually BOUGHT it yet (as opposed to having it lying around unplayed) I would submit that now is probably the most opportune time; it's down to twenty bucks or so used (a used copy of ME1 actually sells for MORE than a used ME3 copy) and if I recall the price curves that ME1 and ME2 took on both the direct and the secondhand market, ME3 is going to bottom out somewhere between sixteen and twenty months after initial retail release and then actually tick UPWARDS slightly before settling down into it's long-term "Greatest Hits" level of pricing.

(I used to sell video games. I keep track of how the market works at retail.)

>>Big risk to run just for some healthy organs.
>
>There's a fine thread of extremely dark comedy running through Dr.
>Saleon's intentions, actually: He thinks she's human. If he'd
>succeeded in his acquisition, he'd have discovered to his dismay that
>nothing he just acquired is of any use to anyone but its original
>owner
. So he'd have incurred the complete shutdown of Brown
>Sector and the kind of search-and-destroy mission you only read about
>in Mark Bowden books for nothing.

I find that hilarious in two ways.

The first is just because it's hilarious on it's own right. The second is that, it occurs to me that due to her unique physiology, Lyneh probably makes sure Kaname donates blood twice a year a year in case she (Kaname) ever needs a transfusion, as Kaname is unlikely to be able to absorb any old random bag of O positive.

Which means somewhere in the Voronda Elendil's medbay, there's a medical cooling unit with a sticky note on it that says "Kana-chan's Blood. DO NOT USE FOR OTHER PURPOSES."

... well, I think it's funny.


>particularly into it (ISTR reading once about an Army study in which
>it was found that only about 10% of soldiers in combat even attempt to
>actually shoot anyone, which the Army, being the Army, found shocking
>and disgraceful),

You recall correctly, although it was closer to 20%.

That's also a very old statistic; it dates to the Second World War, I believe, or at least that rough time period. The army, as you said, found it shocking and disgraceful, and there was a massive overhaul of their training methods; prior to that, the focus was almost exclusively on what we'd think of bread-and-butter soldiering (how to maintain and use your gear, how to follow orders, basic strategy and tactics, the proper way to entrench a position, etc etc) and almost nothing else.

After discovering lots of their soldiers were reluctant to kill, the armed forces decided that there needed to be a deliberate and concerted attempt to instill killer instinct into people. It's worked pretty well; the proportion of soldiers who will use their weapons with killing intent, unprompted, is MUCH higher than one-in-five today.

>In most
>places, for instance, the majority age for a human or near-humanoid
>(based on various abstruse biological metrics) is 16 Standard years.
>(Which means that, in the Republic of Zeta Cygni where her passport
>comes from, in any case, Kaname's not in fact underage. She can vote,
>undertake legal contracts, join the Defense Force if she wanted, etc.)

That seems rather early to me, as I'm still young enough (although that time is fast ending) to recall what it was like being 16, and entrusting me with a motor vehicle was a shockingly foolhardy decision on the part of the state, to say nothing of weapons or the power of contract. :)

On the other hand, it's been a shitty century and a half or so for the civilized galaxy, barring a handful of stable places (like Salusia). And I seem to recall reading somewhere that, while 25th century humans live longer than we do now in the real world, both average AND median age at death for humans peaked in 2200s and than CRASHED during the 2300s when everything went to shit. (That almost certainly comes from a very ancient Redneck story, though, one of his pieces dealing with the old Olympus megastate.) So I can see "childhood" ending up shortened.

>As for the WDF, they had no dog in the fight. Their contract is with
>the Federation, not the Earth Alliance, and they mainly guard against
>external threats anyway. The WDF's charter does have the deeply
>buried "good of the galaxy" clause - the one invoked to justify, for
>instance, the Force's interference in the matter of the Salusian
>succession in 2015 - but Daver is very cautious about when he pulls
>that trigger, and at the risk of seeming a bit Darwinian about it,
>Proxima just wasn't big enough.

Fair enough. I don't typically associate the WDF with realpolitik, but rather gung-ho idealism. :)

>In Captain Davidson's case, I suspect she'd have done considerably
>better if she'd been allowed to manage the affair the way she wanted,

Hmm! You know, after you put this down, I went back through both the Operation TRIDENT docs and the story itself.

I don't know what the culture of the EA Marines is like, but if it's anything like actual Marines Westford Drake likely inspired a fair amount of disbelief-slash-contempt from his men and fellow officers by choosing to remain in orbit, rather than going down with the rest of his men. (Try and imagine Alexander Vandegrift choosing to remain with the Navy rather than going ashore to Guadalcanal.)

Despite being in overall command, the battle for mastery of orbit was going to be largely out of his control (conducted as it was by the navy and being something he probably has limited expertise in) and staying up there has the very real possibility of leaving him cut off from the troops he is responsible for and unable to meaningfully contribute to the defense of the planet he has been charged to hold.

What remaining in orbit DOES do, though, is vastly increase the likelihood that if things go bad, Drake personally will be able to escape with his hide intact instead of being trapped in a bunker with the rest of the marines.

This makes me wonder if Drake was promoted more from politics than for his soldierly qualities. Or if he considered Davidson to be sufficiently unreliable he had to keep an eye on her, I suppose.

>>That actually sounds kind of silly. If a Blue Suns squad shows up B6
>>is going to let them just walk into the station in full kit so long as
>>their IDs check out?
>
>Sure, if they could demonstrate a genuine necessity for it.

Huh. Well, shows what I know, then.

>>I know that "Teletha" is her proper, canonical, creator-confirmed
>>actual name from Full Metal Panic. But lord, that is an UGLY
>>romanization. Would "Theresa" have been so hard for them? Really?
>
>How is this our problem? Besides, I kind of like it. It's, I'unno,
>exotic. And fun to say.

Oh, it's not your problem at all. I'm just saying, I love Tessa, but I hate what they did with her name. :)

>As an aside, you stopped short of what is my personal favorite phrase
>in Nanami's speech:
>
>"Think of that. A hatred so pure that the Enemy of All perceives it
>as beauty."
>
>They say even the Daleks (well, you know, the bad Daleks) have
>a concept of beauty. It's probably a bit like Surtur's.

I think that line stands well enough on it's own without any encouragement from me. As I said, Nanami's scene? Far and away the best one in the story.

Although, now that you've brought it up... Nanami's whole line about how Akio is now "more" than he used to be got me thinking.

Akio v1.0 was... well, he was fundamentally crippled by the whole "died and my body kept going without me" thing that happened to Dios. But part of being broken in that specific way meant that Akio was still nominally at least TRYING to be the Prince of Cephiro. He was doing a completely shit job of it, because he was a soulless monster, but he still fundamentally thought of himself as the hero and that everything he was doing was justified because of that. (You'll note that in the TV series itself, Akio more than once confronted what was left of Dios in vain attempts to convince Dios that Akio was right, dammit, he was just doing what he had to do, can't you SEE that, you stupid child?)

But anyway, my point is that Akio used to be... well, broken and insecure, really. There was always a sense (and I don't know if you meant to convey this deliberately or not, but it's what I got from the Symphony) that despite the whole puppet master thing he had going on, he wasn't QUITE sure about what he was doing, and the conflicting imperatives of trying to maintain at least the trappings of the Prince while simultaneously being incapable of actually BEING the Prince left him flailing around a bit.

He doesn't have that problem anymore, does he? Akio the Duke of Hell (Trigon) is completely at peace with himself, his nature, and his place in the universe. He's absolutely and completely sure of what he's doing and why he is doing it. Which, as Nanami says, kind of makes him far more terrifying, as Akio was dangerous enough when he was a lesser creature. His scenes in Oriphos have a much different vibe to them than, say, his scenes in Ohtori Academy back when he was trying to draw in Wakaba.

But as I often do, I could just be reading things in that aren't there.

>>It certainly doesn't have a
>>universal guarantee of sentient rights or to representative
>>government, for example.
>
>It's supposed to, but it rather lacks the teeth to enforce them.

I'm curious then; assuming it has a judicial branch, has the Federation made a ruling on the compatibility of the Psi Act with the Federation's ostensible commitment to sentient rights? The EA isn't going to give a shit, of course, they'd simply go all Andrew Jackson on it, but it would at least make it difficult for them to legally extend their insane slavery regime for psions to other sovereign states within the Federation.

>>Corwin, Utena, and Anthy aren't what you'd call vengeful people.
>
>Well, Anthy kind of is. She prefers it on a time scale that would
>make Klingon thought admirals start looking ostentatiously at their
>watches, is all.

Hm. I'm curious; did the "Anthy torments Nanami" episodes of SkU happen in the context of UF? You know, when Nanami had to trek all over the world (or Cephiro, I guess) to gather the ingredients to undo Anthy's little body-swap spell on Utena, or when Nanami was utterly and completely convinced she'd laid an egg in her sleep?

(Nanami was sort of Anthy's chew-toy throughout a lot of SkU, really; Anthy messed with her mind a LOT and I don't think it was because Akio was making her.)

Because if so, I bet Anthy kind of feels just AWFUL about those acts of petty vengeance now.

>>I think maybe Akio wants them to come for Nanami in some way. Which
>>probably means doing so is bad, bad news.
>
>Any comment I could make regarding this point would be giving
>something away one way or the other, so I believe I won't. :)

Well, naturally.

-Merc
Drove two hours today to see a movie about a magical pony princess who becomes a magical high school princess.
Has no regrets.

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Gryphonadmin
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57. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #38
 
   >More generally, a number of the "Mini" stories are in fact at this
>point LONGER than stand-alone stuff in the Golden Age and Exile
>sections.

That part's not as important, as I've never really tried to work to a particular length; stuff is as long as it is. The part about indexing and integration, though, is cause for reflection.

>Re: not the playing the third one, lord knows I have my own giant
>stack of unplayed games, but if you haven't actually BOUGHT it yet (as
>opposed to having it lying around unplayed)

No, I have one, I just haven't played it much. Partly because I know it will eventually fail me, mostly because I didn't get my principal ME2 game quite right and I haven't been arsed to replay it the right way up.

>Which means somewhere in the Voronda Elendil's medbay, there's a
>medical cooling unit with a sticky note on it that says "Kana-chan's
>Blood. DO NOT USE FOR OTHER PURPOSES."

NOT FOR CLONE SOURCING

>After discovering lots of their soldiers were reluctant to kill, the
>armed forces decided that there needed to be a deliberate and
>concerted attempt to instill killer instinct into people.

... because that could never go horribly wrong later.

>That seems rather early to me, as I'm still young enough (although
>that time is fast ending) to recall what it was like being 16, and
>entrusting me with a motor vehicle was a shockingly foolhardy decision
>on the part of the state

Heck, I was part of the last group of people to be licensed at 15 in Maine (the Legislature had changed the law while I was in driver's ed that spring, but it didn't take effect until summer). Never did me any harm. Ironically, I was involved in a crash on the first full day I had my driver's license, but it was actually, genuinely, the-cops-said-so not my fault. :)

>So I can see "childhood" ending up shortened.

Nah, it's not an austerity measure, just a combination of more advanced educational outcomes and trusting people to have their shit together. There are safety mechanisms built into the system, I'm just not arsed enough about the topic to design them. That aspect of worldbuilding doesn't interest me much (see below).

>I don't know what the culture of the EA Marines is like, but if it's
>anything like actual Marines Westford Drake likely inspired a fair
>amount of disbelief-slash-contempt from his men and fellow officers by
>choosing to remain in orbit, rather than going down with the rest of
>his men. (Try and imagine Alexander Vandegrift choosing to remain with
>the Navy rather than going ashore to Guadalcanal.)

Weren't you just saying a bit ago that a general who finds herself in actual combat has done something wrong? MUYFM. :)

>This makes me wonder if Drake was promoted more from politics than for
>his soldierly qualities. Or if he considered Davidson to be
>sufficiently unreliable he had to keep an eye on her, I suppose.

I tend to suspect he was instructed not to put himself in a position from which he could not quickly and efficiently get back to base on short notice. You know... just in case anything else might happen to go wrong someplace.

>His scenes in Oriphos have a much different
>vibe to them than, say, his scenes in Ohtori Academy back when he was
>trying to draw in Wakaba.

Well, as you note, at that point - in the gap between the end of the Lost Tournament and his death in Knights 3 - he wasn't really operating to a plan; he was improvising frantically, trying to salvage whatever he could out of a situation he had failed (or refused) to recognize as essentially unsalvageable. This desperation did make him dangerous - what he was trying to accomplish by hijacking the replacement-Pillar process would have been seriously bad news, even if it would probably not have worked out the way he was expecting it to - but it meant that however urbane he tried to be, there was always that sense that he was juggling three or four of those old-timey cartoon-anarchist bombs with the gaily burning Mission Impossible fuses.

Now, on the other hand...

>I'm curious then; assuming it has a judicial branch, has the
>Federation made a ruling on the compatibility of the Psi Act with the
>Federation's ostensible commitment to sentient rights?

Sort of; that's what the 2407 Psi Corps/IPO détente was about.

This has been touched on a couple of times, but only gently, because - as noted above - I have limited interest in depicting legal wrangling. Early in Requiem for a Lensman, for instance, Gryphon and Utena have a short conversation in a turbolift in which Utena asks him, essentially, "Why are we letting them get away with this?", the answer to which boiled down to, "I'm not entirely convinced we actually have to burn the galaxy down to save it yet, but I think I can see the place where I will be from here."

>Hm. I'm curious; did the "Anthy torments Nanami" episodes of SkU
>happen in the context of UF? You know, when Nanami had to trek all
>over the world (or Cephiro, I guess) to gather the ingredients to undo
>Anthy's little body-swap spell on Utena, or when Nanami was utterly
>and completely convinced she'd laid an egg in her sleep?

Yes.

>Because if so, I bet Anthy kind of feels just AWFUL about those acts
>of petty vengeance now.

Yes. Well, some of it. She earned the egg thing fair and square. (And the curry thing really was kind of an accident. Or at least it went on a bit longer than was originally intended.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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zwol
Member since Feb-23-12
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Jun-17-13, 09:42 PM (EDT)
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59. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #57
 
   >>After discovering lots of their soldiers were reluctant to kill, the
>>armed forces decided that there needed to be a deliberate and
>>concerted attempt to instill killer instinct into people.
>
>... because that could never go horribly wrong later.

I recall reading a news report about this; on top of all the more obvious (but less demonstrable, at least from unclassified sources) ways it could go horribly wrong, it's thought to be at least partially responsible for the massive increase in PTSD in veterans of more recent wars.


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Mercutio
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Jun-18-13, 02:10 AM (EDT)
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62. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #57
 
  
>No, I have one, I just haven't played it much. Partly because I know
>it will eventually fail me, mostly because I didn't get my principal
>ME2 game quite right and I haven't been arsed to replay it the right
>way up.

I have a "bad end" ME2 save somewhere that I need to import into ME3 at some point just to see how much of a clusterfuck it ends up being and how amusing it makes some of the DLC.

Short version: I blew Wrex away on Virmire, and arranged things so that the only three people to walk away from the Collector base were Shepard, Zaeed, and Morinth; everyone else is a corpse, I sold Legion to Cerberus, AND I handed the base over to the Illusive Man.

(This is actually SUBSTANTIALLY harder to engineer than the good ending. Damn tough bastards wanted to keep living.)

Morinth, of course, ends up thoroughly Reaperized in the third game, and Zaeed gets shot off-camera by a bunch of thugs.

Should be interesting times when I finally get around to dumping THAT pile into ME3.

>>his men. (Try and imagine Alexander Vandegrift choosing to remain with
>>the Navy rather than going ashore to Guadalcanal.)
>
>Weren't you just saying a bit ago that a general who finds herself in
>actual combat has done something wrong? MUYFM. :)

I know you're funning with me, but to respond semi-seriously, Vandegrift never actually went into combat himself, although he had to keep his head to keep it from getting blown up a number of times. (I should hunt down a biography of the man at some point; I've read, like, eight books on Guadalcanal and TWO bios of Chesty Puller, but not one of Vandegrift.) But the point is, he wasn't manning a machine gun along the Matinakau; he was back at his command post.

But he WAS enduring the same privation his men were, because the corporate culture of the Marines is all "every Marine is a fighting Marine, every Marine is a rifleman, etc." He ate the same shitty food, got the same awful diseases, wore the same clothes until they were rotting off his back. If their position had been overrun, it would have been his ass in the last bunker.

Of course, the culture of the EAM may not bear much resemblance at all to the USMC.

>>I'm curious then; assuming it has a judicial branch, has the
>>Federation made a ruling on the compatibility of the Psi Act with the
>>Federation's ostensible commitment to sentient rights?
>
>Sort of; that's what the 2407 Psi Corps/IPO détente was about.
>
>This has been touched on a couple of times, but only gently, because -
>as noted above - I have limited interest in depicting legal wrangling.

Fair enough. I, personally, can't get enough of it. If the Psi Act actually existed, I'd likely read the whole damn thing. And then read the lengthy body of jurisprudence surrounding it. :)

> Early in Requiem for a Lensman, for instance, Gryphon and
>Utena have a short conversation in a turbolift in which Utena asks
>him, essentially, "Why are we letting them get away with this?", the
>answer to which boiled down to, "I'm not entirely convinced we
>actually have to burn the galaxy down to save it yet, but I think I
>can see the place where I will be from here."

Hmm. Question: I dug through the entire Annotated Documents section, and couldn't find a summary or precis about what exactly is in the International Police Accords... does Clark being the President of the Federation give him any influence over the IPO?

Here in the real world, the actual Interpol is run by consensus of its participating nations, in order to maintain political accountability. The IPO is substantially more muscular than Interpol is (Interpol is notoriously gunshy when it comes to crimes that have any kind of political dimension) but...

Well. As you said, the WDF are stateless mercenaries with independent funding. Gryphon and Zoner didn't have to answer to ANYONE back in the day, except possibly Lord F. If you had a problem with what they were doing, you had better have had the raw firepower to back it up.

But the IPO are technically law enforcement, right? Doesn't that mean there's political accountability somewhere baked into the Accords? Zoner is, I'm sure, a gifted diplomat, but most sovereign powers are not, I think going to respond with a hearty "Yes, please!" if he sits down and asks them "Hey, want to give Ben Hutchins carte blanche to operate his elite team of peacekeepers within your borders?" Asriel would probably react well to that sales pitch; I'd be amazed if most other powers or, indeed, the Federation Assembly, were quite so enthusiastic. They'd want some sort of oversight or advisory body put into place, yes? If the IPO is going to be the face of Federation-backed transtellar law enforcement, one imagines the Federation would want a say in how it's run.

(I could be wrong about this. It's your universe, after all. And I apologize if there IS a copy of the International Police Accords somewhere and I just missed them.)

The point I'm trying to edge around to is I'm wondering if Bill Clark has the power to come at the IPO sideways now that he's in the big chair. Do shit like reduce the Federation share of their funding, hold hearing after hearing after hearing (forcing valuable Lensmen to be tied up endlessly in Paris) other stuff like that. The EA already withdrew from the Accords; engineering a complete Federation withdrawal from them as well would doubtless be quite satisfying to him.

Coming at Gryphon sideways has a hell of a track record; worked great for Genom back in the day.

-Merc
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BobSchroeck
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Jun-17-13, 08:57 AM (EDT)
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39. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #23
 
   >>I know that "Teletha" is her proper, canonical, creator-confirmed
>>actual name from Full Metal Panic. But lord, that is an UGLY
>>romanization. Would "Theresa" have been so hard for them? Really?
>How is this our problem? Besides, I kind of like it. It's, I'unno, exotic. >And fun to say.

It is, but then again, explaining where the hell "Tessa" comes from is good, too. I always assumed "Teletha" was Greek or something until this thread...

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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JeanneHedge
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Jun-17-13, 06:36 PM (EDT)
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54. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #39
 
   >>>I know that "Teletha" is her proper, canonical, creator-confirmed
>>>actual name from Full Metal Panic. But lord, that is an UGLY
>>>romanization. Would "Theresa" have been so hard for them? Really?
>>How is this our problem? Besides, I kind of like it. It's, I'unno, exotic. >And fun to say.
>
>It is, but then again, explaining where the hell "Tessa" comes from is
>good, too. I always assumed "Teletha" was Greek or something until
>this thread...

Well hey Bob, where *does* Tessa (the name, not the person) come from? I just figured it was a Japanese pronunciation thing in FMP.


Jeanne


Jeanne Hedge
http://www.jhedge.com
"Never give up, never surrender!"


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pjmoyermoderator
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Jun-17-13, 07:35 PM (EDT)
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56. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #54
 
   >>>>I know that "Teletha" is her proper, canonical, creator-confirmed
>>>>actual name from Full Metal Panic. But lord, that is an UGLY
>>>>romanization. Would "Theresa" have been so hard for them? Really?
>>>How is this our problem? Besides, I kind of like it. It's, I'unno, exotic. >And fun to say.
>>
>>It is, but then again, explaining where the hell "Tessa" comes from is
>>good, too. I always assumed "Teletha" was Greek or something until
>>this thread...
>
>Well hey Bob, where *does* Tessa (the name, not the person) come from?
>I just figured it was a Japanese pronunciation thing in FMP.

According to that Wikipedia thing:

Teletha Testarossa is an American by birth, as she was born in the USA's northeast (it is intimated that her cultural background is akin to Boston Brahmin), to a family of Swiss and Austrian descent. It can be inferred that she is of Italian descent judging by her last name Testarossa. She traveled the world extensively as a child; however, she has spent a great part of her life living on submarines and military bases.

Not all of that applies to UF, but the cultural ties are there in her background.

--- Philip





Philip J. Moyer
Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios
"Insert Pithy Comment Here"


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BobSchroeck
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Jun-18-13, 09:16 AM (EDT)
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63. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #54
 
   >Well hey Bob, where *does* Tessa (the name, not the person) come from?
>I just figured it was a Japanese pronunciation thing in FMP.

It seems to be a fairly obvious -- and not unprecedented -- diminutive of "Theresa". If indeed "Teletha" is the FMP equivalent of "Anshii", it would make sense.

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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Matrix Dragon
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Jun-16-13, 05:53 AM (EDT)
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14. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #0
 
   As a side note, thanks for putting out an audiobook version too. I'm flying over to America this week, and I get the feeling that'll help fill in the time.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-16-13, 03:35 PM (EDT)
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25. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #14
 
   >As a side note, thanks for putting out an audiobook version too. I'm
>flying over to America this week, and I get the feeling that'll help
>fill in the time.

You're welcome, hope it helps (no pressure there :). I'm trying to do concurrent audio for new non-minis, time and voice condition permitting. (In the end it was just as well that S5M3 had to be delayed for a little while to finish the DSMP5 cycle - I had a cold a couple weeks ago and couldn't have gotten it done in time.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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trigger
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27. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #25
 
   I'm clearly turning into a grumpy old woman...but I found this one very heard to read and digest. I'm going to give it two weeks, try the audio books.

that said, very glad it's here and that Danzig has gone down, as I've been looking forward to the infamy build-up for quite sometime....

yours,
t.

Trigger Argee
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"This isn't exactly the Olympic Games." - Corwin of Amber


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BeardedFerret
Member since Apr-21-08
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Jun-17-13, 04:23 AM (EDT)
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32. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #27
 
   >I'm clearly turning into a grumpy old woman...but I found this one
>very heard to read and digest. I'm going to give it two weeks, try
>the audio books.

I had a pretty chaotic time of it, reading bits of it over the course of what turned into a simultaneously painful and hilarious evening on the mean streets of Melbourne (and then finishing it, hours later, in bed). Listening to the audio the day after really helped cement it for me, so I suspect you'll do OK.


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Verbena
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29. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #0
 
   I could not make myself stop reading this from beginning to end. Thoroughly enjoyed it!

I do have one question, though, about Mars Division, though I have a feeling some of this may be shown in later installments. Just what is the culture like over there? I seem to recall it being said at one point that, in terms of culture, Mars Division is to the WDF as the WDF is to an ordinary military. But I'm not entirely sure what that means, and I'm rather curious.


"There's not very many of us in the galaxy right now, no matter how long and hard Ariel has been working to correct that."


o_O

What's going -on- over there?

--------

this world created by the
hands of the gods
everything is false
everything is a LIE
the final days have come
now
let everything be destroyed

--mu


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Nathan
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41. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #29
 
   >What's going -on- over there?

Nothing as bad as it sounds. In original canon, even all the way back to MOSPEADA, the Invid are basically these slug-things, individually subsapient but linked by a hive mind. The original 'Queen Invid', the Regis, was concerned with 'evolving' them into a better format (via psychic woo-woo), and eventually settled on imitation humans, complete with sapience.

A passing reference in UF whose address I can't currently recall indicates that Ariel has replaced the Regis, so Kana-chan's dad was presumably speaking specifically about humanoid, sapient Invid and the upgrade process that creates them from subsapient types like gurab (which are, BTW, one of the lower Invid castes, for those that had that reference slip by).

While I'm on the subject, though, am I right to conjecture that Korgu -

> "Korgu is much the same, regrettably," Lyneh added. "He's been
> all but clawing the walls, ever since the first aftershocks got
> through the mindlink. Lieutenant Mao has him currently confined to the
> gymnasium, so he doesn't do -too- much property damage."

- is a gurab or other nonsapient Invid with a particular affinity for 'big sister Kaname'?

-----

"V, did you do something foolish?"

"Yes, and it was glorious."


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Verbena
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Jun-17-13, 01:49 PM (EDT)
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42. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #41
 
   >Nothing as bad as it sounds. In original canon, even all the way back
>to MOSPEADA, the Invid are basically these slug-things, individually
>subsapient but linked by a hive mind. The original 'Queen Invid', the
>Regis, was concerned with 'evolving' them into a better format (via
>psychic woo-woo), and eventually settled on imitation humans, complete
>with sapience.

Aaaaah, I begin to understand. I know very little about the Invid (basically what's in the old Palladium book on them, which ain't much, and even that was years ago) but between the hivemind and the naturally biologically morphable nature of their race, I begin to understand.

>
>A passing reference in UF whose address I can't currently recall
>indicates that Ariel has replaced the Regis, so Kana-chan's dad was
>presumably speaking specifically about humanoid, sapient Invid and the
>upgrade process that creates them from subsapient types like gurab
>(which are, BTW, one of the lower Invid castes, for those that had
>that reference slip by).

The quote I put in my last post may be the one to which you were referring. Kaname herself specifically refers to 'uplifting' in that scene and I have a feeling she's talking about Ariel taking earlier stage 1-4 Invid and 'uplifting' them to stage 5 and sentience. Basically I think she was saying it makes sense she's not as in tune with the hivemind because full Invid are comfortable with it before they are even sentient, let alone adult.


--------

this world created by the
hands of the gods
everything is false
everything is a LIE
the final days have come
now
let everything be destroyed

--mu


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Gryphonadmin
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43. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #41
 
   >While I'm on the subject, though, am I right to conjecture that Korgu
>is a gurab or other nonsapient Invid with a particular affinity for
>'big sister Kaname'?

Oh, no, he's quite sapient. It's just that he has... anger management problems.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Croaker
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Jun-17-13, 02:47 PM (EDT)
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49. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #41
 
   >While I'm on the subject, though, am I right to conjecture that Korgu
>-
>
>> "Korgu is much the same, regrettably," Lyneh added. "He's been
>> all but clawing the walls, ever since the first aftershocks got
>> through the mindlink. Lieutenant Mao has him currently confined to the
>> gymnasium, so he doesn't do -too- much property damage."
>
>- is a gurab or other nonsapient Invid with a particular affinity for
>'big sister Kaname'?
>
>-----
>
>"V, did you do something foolish?"
>
>"Yes, and it was glorious."

Corg, as I recall from the 'original' series (Robotech, that is, I've never seen Genesis Climber Mospeada), was one of the first Invid to be uplifted by the Regis, along with Ariel/Marlene and Sera.

Sera and Ariel managed to fall in with humans, of course.

Corg... was the psychotically insane one who was jealous over Sera paying attention to Lancer rather than him.

I'm assuming he's gotten over this by the time of this story.

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


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Nathan
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55. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #49
 
   Oh! That guy!

Jeeze, now my face is a bit red.

(I still think Kaname having her own Ai-chan would be awesome, though, if only for Sousuke's face the first time he sees its 'Encounter Suit'.)

-----

"V, did you do something foolish?"

"Yes, and it was glorious."


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Verbena
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60. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #55
 
   >Oh! That guy!
>
>Jeeze, now my face is a bit red.
>
>(I still think Kaname having her own Ai-chan would be awesome, though,
>if only for Sousuke's face the first time he sees its 'Encounter
>Suit'.)

Actually, this brings another question to mind. Does Mars Division field Invid mecha, or are they pretty much vanished from the galaxy at this point? Heck, they might be hopelessly outclassed at this point.

--------

this world created by the
hands of the gods
everything is false
everything is a LIE
the final days have come
now
let everything be destroyed

--mu


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Mephronmoderator
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61. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #60
 
   Precisely what happened, including answering that question exactly, is being worked on.

(No really. We have explanations for these things incoming!)

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-17-13, 01:58 PM (EDT)
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45. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #29
 
   >Just what is
>the culture like over there? I seem to recall it being said at one
>point that, in terms of culture, Mars Division is to the WDF as the
>WDF is to an ordinary military. But I'm not entirely sure what that
>means, and I'm rather curious.

Phil can speak to this more directly than I can, but basically, Mars Division is as much family business as paramilitary organization. (This is particularly true in the case of its Invid personnel, as they're all still within a handful of generations of a point in time when all living members of the species were siblings.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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pjmoyermoderator
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Jun-17-13, 02:20 PM (EDT)
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47. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #45
 
   >>Just what is
>>the culture like over there? I seem to recall it being said at one
>>point that, in terms of culture, Mars Division is to the WDF as the
>>WDF is to an ordinary military. But I'm not entirely sure what that
>>means, and I'm rather curious.
>
>Phil can speak to this more directly than I can, but basically, Mars
>Division is as much family business as paramilitary organization.
>(This is particularly true in the case of its Invid personnel, as
>they're all still within a handful of generations of a point in time
>when all living members of the species were siblings.)

Mars Division formed in the wake of the fall of the WDF, about a decade or two after the initial furor died down. Drawing from an eclectic mix of ex-WDF personnel who managed to escape the purges who found out that they existed, and right-minded people who wanted to make a difference who weren't able to in their current circumstances, the organization built itself up into quite the little covert-ops force. You either figured out that Mars Division existed and tried to find a place with them, or Mars Division scouted you for your unique talents and invited you in. Not an easy life by far, but for a certain subset of person it gave direction and a light in the darkness for a galaxy that had fallen into shadow.

The fact that they had their own secret base and battlecarrier thanks to a GENOM black ops program going down the tubes didn't hurt matters any.

As for the Invid personnel, genetic relations are tricky because there's no true 'generations' per-se so far; most living Invid today effectively owe their lives to Ariel as their Queen-Mother. It's only been in the past few decades that individual Invid have even considered marrying one another due to the general disinclination for them to intermarry (more socially than any genetic requirement against inbreeding), and it's come to the point that's there's enough Invid/Human couples that Kaname no longer can list the number of Human-Invid Hybrid 'cousins' she has by name anymore.

Family reunions for Invid tend to get... strange, after a while.

--- Philip
(but really, with the mindlink, who needs reunions?)





Philip J. Moyer
Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios
"Insert Pithy Comment Here"


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Gryphonadmin
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48. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #47
 
   >(but really, with the mindlink, who needs reunions?)

I suspect watching your two favorite uncles get into a tipsy fistfight over the outcome of a Pokeno game isn't really the same on a telepathic weblink. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Polychrome
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30. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #0
 
   Okay, having read this and the comments in this thread I'm going to hazard a theory as to what's going on with Kanama and Sosuke and his employers.
It's possible that someone with unpleasant intentions (like the Psi Corps) could grab Kaname and use her as a telepathic back door into the Invid "hive mind" and disrupt, control or otherwise engage in shenanigans with it. Somebody realized this and put Sosuke on the case. It's possible that he was hired by somebody with those unpleasant intentions to keep an eye on her and possibly even make the grab when the time came. Whether he actually would remains to be seen.

Also, I agree with Mercutio's assessment that Akio is using Nanami as bait for the Trinity.

Polychrome

Rampant speculation ENGAGE!


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Croaker
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Jun-17-13, 05:02 PM (EDT)
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52. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #30
 
   >Okay, having read this and the comments in this thread I'm going to
>hazard a theory as to what's going on with Kanama and Sosuke and his
>employers.
>It's possible that someone with unpleasant intentions (like the Psi
>Corps) could grab Kaname and use her as a telepathic back door into
>the Invid "hive mind" and disrupt, control or otherwise engage in
>shenanigans with it. Somebody realized this and put Sosuke on the
>case. It's possible that he was hired by somebody with those
>unpleasant intentions to keep an eye on her and possibly even make the
>grab when the time came. Whether he actually would remains to be seen.
>
>Also, I agree with Mercutio's assessment that Akio is using Nanami as
>bait for the Trinity.
>
>Polychrome
>
>Rampant speculation ENGAGE!

To extend this speculation:

TechCom is a legitimate PMC (Private Military Contractor). They have a good enough corporate rep that the Sterlings did not immediately go "Get rid of the snake" when they found out what Sousuke was up to. (Well, they probably did, but they calmed down soon enough that no precipitous action was taken.)

My speculation:
As far as TechCom knows, it's a legit op. They're supposed to be protecting Kaname and neither Sousuke nor his superiors have any idea that their contractor has anything but the best of intentions for her.

That is, of course, all about to change.

Here's my thought.

Souskue goes back for his briefing, and the contractor has spun some sort of story intending to get TechCom to bring Kaname to a secure facility (perhaps an imminent abduction attempt, heh). They want her brought to a safe house they've provided...

But now Sousuke knows that they aren't operating at the Sterlings' direction. That they are not, in fact, representatives of Kaname's "real family". He manages to alert his superiors to this just in time to rescue her...

Hmm. Makes me wonder just who -is- Sousuke's boss over there. Kalinin? Mardukas?

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


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Senji
Member since Apr-27-07
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Jun-17-13, 05:13 AM (EDT)
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34. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #0
 
   I'm sure I'm not supposed to get teary eyed about Sagura and Kaname but

"You. Back here. -Now,-" Kaname said.

Had me.

S.


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zwol
Member since Feb-23-12
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Jun-17-13, 01:57 PM (EDT)
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44. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #0
 
   I'm still processing this and may try to find time to do one of those blow-by-blow commentaries later in the week (after rereading).

For right now, though, I'll say that I liked the less-linear-than-usual narrative and the device of having all the viewpoint characters removed from the A-plot action. And I was particularly amused by the bit where Garibaldi tells Sosuke that he could've had all the gear he wanted if he had just asked. Perfect compaction of how Sosuke is both excellent at his job and still seriously green behind the ears at the same time.

One trivia question: you (G) said (in some other thread that I am failing to dig up right now) that one of the reasons this took so long was that in a previous movement one of your collaborators introduced characters you weren't familiar with, and then dropped out of touch. Now it's not a spoiler, can I ask which characters those were?


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Gryphonadmin
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46. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #44
 
   >One trivia question: you (G) said (in some other thread that I am
>failing to dig up right now) that one of the reasons this took so long
>was that in a previous movement one of your collaborators introduced
>characters you weren't familiar with, and then dropped out of touch.
>Now it's not a spoiler, can I ask which characters those were?

That'll be the Mashō. You'll notice that I put them all on a bus back to Kaneko in this one. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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mdg1
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Jun-17-13, 04:16 PM (EDT)
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51. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #46
 
  
>That'll be the Mashō. You'll notice that I put them all on a bus
>back to Kaneko in this one. :)
>

Odd... I'dve thought RONIN WARRIORS would have come within your orbit at some point..

Then again, I was so thirsty for anime in those days that I watched friggin MONSTER RANCHER.

Mario


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zwol
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Jun-17-13, 09:33 PM (EDT)
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58. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #46
 
   >That'll be the Mashō. You'll notice that I put them all on a bus
>back to Kaneko in this one. :)

I did suspect that might have been what was going on there, yes. :)

At least you got a nice Akio-surrounded-by-idiots moment out of it, eh?


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CGWolfgang
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Jun-20-13, 01:39 AM (EDT)
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64. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #0
 
   Good Read, I'll have to reread it again and clarion call just to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Just one question that's been nagging at me. It seems Earthforce isn't taking steps to fight the IPO on equal footing. Time and again they seem woefully inept, underequipped and understaffed than to be anything other than cannon fodder.

Do they field anything that can contend with some of the stuff the IPO can bring to bear?

------------
~If you want my input the red explosions are really pretty and if you did enough you might live for a few more excrutiating seconds

My not so humble contribution to cyberspace

http://cgwolfgang.deviantart.com/


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-20-13, 01:41 AM (EDT)
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65. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #64
 
   >Do they field anything that can contend with some of the stuff the IPO
>can bring to bear?

Sure. They just didn't this time.

'Cause that wasn't really the point of the exercise.

--G.
dramatic musical sting!
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
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Mercutio
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Jun-20-13, 05:05 AM (EDT)
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66. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #64
 
  
>Just one question that's been nagging at me. It seems Earthforce
>isn't taking steps to fight the IPO on equal footing. Time and again
>they seem woefully inept, underequipped and understaffed than to be
>anything other than cannon fodder.
>
>Do they field anything that can contend with some of the stuff the IPO
>can bring to bear?

If I might be permitted to speculate rampantly, as is my wont, Earthforce is, to a large extent, trying to fight new wars using the old rules.

Do they have hardware that can come close to matching that fielded by the WDF/IPO? Sure. Starfleet has the Galaxy-class, which is about to par with the Iowa-class (see "Reflections and Transitions" in Symphony No.1), and the EA has it's own equivalents.

But the galaxy has moved beyond that. During the United Galactica era and Federation era right up to the War of Corporate Occupation, conflict was largely hardware-dependent. The WDF had the Wayward Son and all manner of interesting Zetan overtechnology, so Genom built a bigger, nastier ship. Then when the WDF came roaring back they built their own massive hi-tech fleet to smash against Genom's enormous hi-tech fleet. Part of what kept the CFMF operating was Washuu building them ultimate cool shit.

But even though the War of Corporate Occupation wasn't very long ago, those days are gone.

Gryphon and Zoner and people like them used to be a LOT rarer than they are now. Oh, sure, the WDF had a ton of Detians in it, but all Omega-2 can do is make you immortal; it can't make you EXCEPTIONAL. The exceptional people were a rarity.

They're still pretty rare... except Gryphon has made a point of seeking them out, cultivating them, training them, implanting magic lenses into them, and honing them into an elite squad of intergalactic peacekeepers.

The IPO/WDF would likely have won Tau Ceti even if both sides had been crewed by thoroughly unremarkable career military types; they had the EA outnumbered and outgunned. But part of the reason they not only won, but won embarrassingly easily (seriously, the casualty ratio is so lopsided that it's something that gets people court-martialed if they're on the bad end of it) is because they threw Utena Tenjou, Nikola Tesla, John Spartan, Cortana, Tuncer, the Repo Men, Virginia Shepard, and assorted Duelists and Gods at the EA. The old WDF couldn't have down that; they didn't have that kind of staff. On a very, very good day you might have been able to get maybe ten people with that kind of utterly superlative mastery together in one place, and that would involve doing things like pulling in Martin Rose AND Redneck from their other responsibilities.

(This isn't to denigrate the crew of the old Wayward Son in any way.)

THAT'S how the new wars are fought. The era of "giant fleet that blots out the stars" has largely passed, I think, although such fleets may continue to exist; quantity has a quality all it's own. Organizations like Big Fire understand this; you will note that Big Fire is itself organized on the "elite team of superlative individuals" model, what with the Magnificent Ten and all. Geoff Depew himself seems like an outgrowth of that philosophy; for the cost of making one of HIM, Big Fire probably could have bought a whole 'nother fleet. Which would you rather have, that fleet or one(1) Geoff Depew?

And I don't mean to complete denigrate hardware, of course. The IPO has Skuld Ravenhair on tap, they're gonna have GOOD stuff. And even Utena Tenjou couldn't take on the whole Earth Alliance with just her array of swords of many adjectives.

Anyway, that's kind of how I view the EA. The parts of Earthforce that view this conflict purely in military terms (it's not, but the Joint Chiefs probably are not privy to other plans) probably think if they can just build enough Nova-class battleships and put them in the hands of reliable people they can do just about anything, because hell, isn't that how it works?

They are, I submit, dead wrong.

(Or maybe I am wrong. I'm wrong a lot.)

-Merc
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Mephronmoderator
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Jun-20-13, 06:44 AM (EDT)
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67. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #66
 
   >Organizations
>like Big Fire understand this; you will note that Big Fire is itself
>organized on the "elite team of superlative individuals" model, what
>with the Magnificent Ten and all. Geoff Depew himself seems like an
>outgrowth of that philosophy; for the cost of making one of HIM, Big
>Fire probably could have bought a whole 'nother fleet. Which would you
>rather have, that fleet or one(1) Geoff Depew?

Big Fire also has as its core philosophy the idea that paranormals/nonstandard psi talents are inherently superior and, therefore, deserve to rule; the galaxy just doesn't accept it rule. (Note one of their mottos: "Utopia through Tyranny".) They also have the funding to toss thirty or so cyber-ninjas at a million credits a piece at people if they feel the need (as seen in Blades).

There's a branch of Big Fire whose entire raison d'etre is to find a way to make their own paranormals - my avatar is a, er, graduate not quite the word but close, of that division's experiments.

But if you can take over a planet - either through conquest, or infiltration, or election - and be the legitimate government in the eyes of the galaxy, be you the Federation or Earthdome or even Big Fire or the Nazis - it's a lot harder to get you out once you have that legitimacy.

Big fleet actions are and still will be important. The political game will be extremely important. But the covert actions can be game-changers without anyone really knowing until it's too late. I give you the fact that there was a cloaked ship in-system that presented an excellent precis of what was actually in-system, giving the relief fleet information on ships, commanders, and their location within the system, which meant that Task Force TRIDENT could drop out of hyperspace with a full assault plan already underway - hell, with the Interdictors, they just plan for THOSE to pull them out.

The Earthforce group failed at intelligence - really, they should have a covert station on B6 just to keep an eye on things, and transmit the information... and if they did, you might want to think about why that task force lacked that information.

This has gotten far afield from my original point, but still, the great game is still running - fleets, politics, covert operations and operatives, all of them have their place, and no one of them automatically trumps any other one of them. Don't rule anything out.

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"


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Mercutio
Member since May-25-13
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Jun-20-13, 03:45 PM (EDT)
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68. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #67
 
  
>Big fleet actions are and still will be important. The political game
>will be extremely important.

Oh, yes. Of course. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. It's... hmm.

It's more like, having a giant awesome fleet is no longer quite as important as it once was. What's going to make or break you (it seems to me) is having an Utena Tenjou or Jim Kirk to put in command. That's going to be your primary force multiplier right there; look at the Battle of Titan.

As was discussed upthread, Captain Davidson is probably pretty good at her job. PRETTY good. But even if she'd been completely unshackled by circumstances and politics, Utena would probably still have absolutely destroyed her.

Ideally, of course, you probably want both a giant awesome fleet AND crazy good people to be put in command. But it kind of seems like the crazy good people are getting to be more and more important.

>But the covert actions can be
>game-changers without anyone really knowing until it's too late. I
>give you the fact that there was a cloaked ship in-system that
>presented an excellent precis of what was actually in-system, giving
>the relief fleet information on ships, commanders, and their location
>within the system, which meant that Task Force TRIDENT could drop out
>of hyperspace with a full assault plan already underway - hell, with
>the Interdictors, they just plan for THOSE to pull them out.

One of Grand Admiral Thrawn's best tactical innovations. (In Star Wars, not UF.)

I find it quite hilarious that the Earth Alliance respects Genom's trademark of the name "Interdictor" enough to come up with their own name for the same kind of ship. It's a bit like if the UK had been able to trademark "battlecruiser" and other nations had to come up with their own term.

Captain Davidson really WAS kind of hanging out their with her ass in the breeze, wasn't she?

>The Earthforce group failed at intelligence - really, they should have
>a covert station on B6 just to keep an eye on things, and transmit the
>information... and if they did, you might want to think about why that
>task force lacked that information.

To be fair, (above and beyond the fact that there's a ton more going on with Tau Ceti than just the battle) much like the now-sacked Admiral Kimball, the Earth Alliance probably figures that a quick force response force is something you put together in hours, rather than minutes.

Now I'm imagining that the intelligence officer in charge of that (still-hypothetical) covert station is probably perennially frustrated. "Your reports are constantly too late to do any good!" Well, no shit, buddy. These people make decisions fast, and when we know about them at all it's because we see the fuckin' metagate opens right before they cram half the IPSF through it. We can't collect comms traffic to do sigint on because the Psi Corps still hasn't figured out a way to intercept lens traffic, now have they? And that's on top of the fact that both Hutchins' bastard and his little... gloom cookie teenaged sidekick have parapsychic talents that apparently involve matter transportation across interstellar distances!

(And then the drinking starts.)

It's probably not the easiest job in Earthforce Intelligence. :)

>This has gotten far afield from my original point, but still, the
>great game is still running - fleets, politics, covert operations and
>operatives, all of them have their place, and no one of them
>automatically trumps any other one of them. Don't rule anything out.

True, but some of them are weighted heavier than others, one imagines.

-Merc
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The Traitor
Member since Feb-24-09
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Jun-20-13, 07:07 PM (EDT)
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69. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #68
 
   >Now I'm imagining that the intelligence officer in charge of that
>(still-hypothetical) covert station is probably perennially
>frustrated. "Your reports are constantly too late to do any good!"
>Well, no shit, buddy. These people make decisions fast, and when we
>know about them at all it's because we see the fuckin' metagate opens
>right before they cram half the IPSF through it. We can't collect
>comms traffic to do sigint on because the Psi Corps still hasn't
>figured out a way to intercept lens traffic, now have they? And that's
>on top of the fact that both Hutchins' bastard and his little... gloom
>cookie teenaged sidekick have parapsychic talents that apparently
>involve matter transportation across interstellar distances!
>
>(And then the drinking starts.)

I just think that Earthforce thinks prolonged exposure to Babylon station sends the spooks they put there crazy, so they put the crazy spooks there anyway. Thus, you get a lot of really top-notch intelligence, but since all of it concerns teenagers in school uniforms, wild-psi creatures of varying stripe, and the occasional heavily-armed rock band, it immediately gets trashed along with news that the IPO is currently deep in diplomatic negotiations with the king of the potato people.

---
"Yeah, I'm definitely going to hell/But I'll have all the best stories to tell" -- Frank Turner, The Ballad of Me and My Friends


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Senji
Member since Apr-27-07
86 posts
Jun-20-13, 07:10 PM (EDT)
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70. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #68
 
   >Now I'm imagining that the intelligence officer in charge of that
>(still-hypothetical) covert station is probably perennially
>frustrated. "Your reports are constantly too late to do any good!"
>Well, no shit, buddy. These people make decisions fast, and when we
>know about them at all it's because we see the fuckin' metagate opens
>right before they cram half the IPSF through it. We can't collect
>comms traffic to do sigint on because the Psi Corps still hasn't
>figured out a way to intercept lens traffic, now have they? And that's
>on top of the fact that both Hutchins' bastard and his little... gloom
>cookie teenaged sidekick have parapsychic talents that apparently
>involve matter transportation across interstellar distances!
>
And whose side is that Ivanova supposed to be on?

S.


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SpottedKitty
Member since Jun-15-04
152 posts
Jun-21-13, 00:41 AM (EDT)
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71. "RE: First Dates and Firefights"
In response to message #70
 
   > And whose side is that Ivanova supposed to be on?

The one least likely to make her want to personally rip their lungs out.

--
Unable to save the day: File is read-only.


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