128|on|0|154|0|yes 0|0|0|||||Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||15:14:09|06/22/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-22-01 AT 03:21 PM (EDT)[/font][p]Okay%2C accidentally hit Enter too early... have to edit this post to actually put material in the topic.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnyhow%2C been thinking about the situation at the end of 3%3A9... my current train of thought is that Lucifer%2C rather than absorbing DJ%2C assimilated him into his body as a protective mechanism. The first time%2C he did it out of shock%3B this time it was intentional%2C a way to avoid getting captured. It%27s a bit out-there%2C but within the realm of possibility. It%27s require some method of absorbing without leaving any carbon or water in the LCL%2C though%2C which makes it far less likely.%0D%0A%0D%0AMy current theory about DJ%27s talent is that both of the two theories are true%3A that being absorbed by EVA-01 burnt out his talent except for Lucifer himself. He can obviously still pilot Lucifer%2C after all.%0D%0A-Eliot %22Wanted to write more%2C but in a hurry%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 1|1|0|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||15:20:44|06/22/2001|%3E-%3D%28%29%3D- %0D%0A%0D%0AConcise%2C to the point%2C and rich in symbolism%2C but wrong.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 2|2|1|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||15:23:33|06/22/2001|%3EConcise%2C to the point%2C and rich in symbolism%2C but wrong. %0D%0A%0D%0AHow did I know this was going to happen... %3A%28%0D%0A%0D%0ADamn the Enter key. Damn it to hell. Damn this whole freaking Compaq%2C and may God have mercy on its computer soul.%0D%0A%0D%0AMy apologies%2C Gryphon. I didn%27t mean to appear to be posting blank messages.%0D%0A-Eliot %22Like the day was going so well beforehand%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 3|1|0|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Peter Eng||15:35:27|06/22/2001|%3E%0D%0A%3EMy current theory about DJ%27s talent is that both of the two theories %0D%0A%3Eare true%3A that being absorbed by EVA-01 burnt out his talent except %0D%0A%3Efor Lucifer himself. He can obviously still pilot Lucifer%2C after all. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E-Eliot %22Wanted to write more%2C but in a hurry%22 Lefebvre %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0ANice theory%2C with one hole in it - it assumes that DJ had the ability to pilot any other EVA. It%27s entirely possible that his EVA talent developed a %22resonance%22 with the first EVA he piloted%2C and that he won%27t be able to synchronize with any other EVA%2C or even the ARC series.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut it%27s far more likely that I%27m so far out in left field that I%27m in the parking lot.%0D%0A%0D%0APeter Eng%0D%0A--%0D%0A%5BB%5DNot%5B%2FB%5D coming soon %28or ever%29 from EPU%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AUndocumented Features - Core%3A The Director%27s Cut.%0D%0A%28Due to improvements in the fanfiction-writing capabilities available to EPU%2C it is now possible to produce a %22director%27s cut%22 of the core UF stories%2C except that the director has much better things to do.%29 5|2|3|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Griever||14:23:55|06/24/2001|%3ENice theory%2C with one hole in it - it assumes that DJ had the ability %0D%0A%3Eto pilot any other EVA. It%27s entirely possible that his EVA talent %0D%0A%3Edeveloped a %22resonance%22 with the first EVA he piloted%2C and that he %0D%0A%3Ewon%27t be able to synchronize with any other EVA%2C or even the ARC %0D%0A%3Eseries. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AAny maybe DJ didn%27t have a %27talent%27 for piloting the EVAs to begin with and Lucifer -recognizing the Eternal Soldier- infused him with it %28making it work only for this one unit%29 in the first place . %0D%0AI know it%27s far fetched %2C but that may explain the burnmarks on his hands after his first sortie in EVA-01%28or maybe it was just that the plugsuit he was wearing had been made for someone else and I%27m entirely wrong here%29. %0D%0A%0D%0A -Griever%0D%0Athe master of overinterpretation .%0D%0A 6|3|5|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Astynax||00:17:30|06/25/2001|%3E%3ENice theory%2C with one hole in it - it assumes that DJ had the ability %0D%0A%3E%3Eto pilot any other EVA. It%27s entirely possible that his EVA talent %0D%0A%3E%3Edeveloped a %22resonance%22 with the first EVA he piloted%2C and that he %0D%0A%3E%3Ewon%27t be able to synchronize with any other EVA%2C or even the ARC %0D%0A%3E%3Eseries. %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAny maybe DJ didn%27t have a %27talent%27 for piloting the EVAs to begin %0D%0A%3Ewith and Lucifer -recognizing the Eternal Soldier- infused him with it %0D%0A%3E%28making it work only for this one unit%29 in the first place . %0D%0A%3EI know it%27s far fetched %2C but that may explain the burnmarks on his %0D%0A%3Ehands after his first sortie in EVA-01%28or maybe it was just that the %0D%0A%3Eplugsuit he was wearing had been made for someone else and I%27m %0D%0A%3Eentirely wrong here%29. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0ANot sure%2C but DJ DID attempt to synchronize with another unit before his %27burn out%27 and it responded to him %3Cjust not in a positive manner%3E. Since his subsequent attempt to to sync failed to show ANY response%2C I%27d say the %27burn out%27 theory fits best %3Cpossible alternative%3A he can only get a response from pre-production units%2C the ones with another being%27s essence inside. Considering that unit 00 is ash%2C that does still limit him to unit 01%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A-%3D%7B%28Astynax%29%7D%3D-%0D%0A%22Darkness beyond Twilight%22 7|4|6|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Wedge||01:17:58|06/25/2001|%3ENot sure%2C but DJ DID attempt to synchronize with another unit before %0D%0A%3Ehis %27burn out%27 and it responded to him %3Cjust not in a positive %0D%0A%3Emanner%3E. Since his subsequent attempt to to sync failed to show ANY %0D%0A%3Eresponse%2C I%27d say the %27burn out%27 theory fits best %3Cpossible %0D%0A%3Ealternative%3A he can only get a response from pre-production units%2C the %0D%0A%3Eones with another being%27s essence inside. Considering that unit 00 is %0D%0A%3Eash%2C that does still limit him to unit 01%3E %0D%0A%0D%0AThe only problem I have with that is Jet Alone and the spontaneous hand-to-hand code. While that might have more to do with being the modern instance of Longinus than any EVA talent%2C one would think that a production model EVA is just as much a tool of war as JA is%2C and a similar aptitude would pertain.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe only connection I can think of is that JA has non-aware decision making software for autonomous use%2C which%2C in that particular time of stress for DJ%2C was enough to double in as an actual spiritual essence which DJ%27s specific talent could kick in. Since the production models have no such code %28that I know of%29%2C and no real awareness%2C he can%27t make it go because there%27s nothing for his talent to %27talk to%27. And if that were true%2C then it would also stand to reason that modified Jet Alone code could be supplied to a production model EVA %28or possibly an ARC model%29 and then DJ would be able to make it work%2C though I%27m sure it would pale in comparison to linking souls with the Lightbringer. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0AChad Collier--%5Bi%5Dit%27s amazing what a fresh read will do for you%2C even if I am just wildly speculating...%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0ADigital Bitch%0D%0AJ. Random VFX Company 8|5|7|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||03:24:47|06/25/2001|%3EThe only problem I have with that is Jet Alone and the spontaneous %0D%0A%3Ehand-to-hand code. While that might have more to do with being the %0D%0A%3Emodern instance of Longinus than any EVA talent%2C one would think that %0D%0A%3Ea production model EVA is just as much a tool of war as JA is%2C and a %0D%0A%3Esimilar aptitude would pertain. %0D%0A%0D%0AThe Eternal Soldier%2C if he must%2C can fight with any weapon he can wield - but he still has to be able to pick it up in the first place.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 10|6|8|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|trigger||15:00:01|06/25/2001|Oooooh%2C I must reply.%0D%0A%0D%0AGryphon - are you saying that DJ%27s talent only works under the stress of combat%3F That testing in neutral setting would do very little%3F It%27s not a crisis situation...whereas his linkage to Lucifer %28and Jet alone%29 were. So once DJ%27s %22used%22 or been forced to %22use%22 a particular type of weapon%2C he can always use it. %0D%0A%0D%0AAnd since each EVA has its individual quirks...or perhaps because Lucifer is a diffent type of weapon than EVA O3%2C he doesn%27t %22know%22 how to use it. And because he doesn%27t understand that %28on a viseral and as well as conscious level%29 he doesn%27t understand that he needs to approach EVA-03 differently. His expectations were off -- he was looking for the same type of linkage he has with Lucifer--and so was his talent.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs Mr. Spock would say%2C fascinating.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AA quick note on an early part of the hread. DJ%27s burning hands were caused by Rei%27s blood...not Eva 01. %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AT.%0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A 11|7|10|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||15:12:05|06/25/2001|%3EGryphon - are you saying that DJ%27s talent only works under the stress %0D%0A%3Eof combat%3F That testing in neutral setting would do very little%3F %0D%0A%3EIt%27s not a crisis situation...whereas his linkage to Lucifer %28and Jet %0D%0A%3Ealone%29 were. So once DJ%27s %22used%22 or been forced to %22use%22 a particular %0D%0A%3Etype of weapon%2C he can always use it. %0D%0A%0D%0AThat wasn%27t what I took away from Gryphon%27s post%2C although it%27s certainly an interesting theory. Jet Alone is a weapon - a very big%2C very ornate weapon%2C but a weapon just the same. As he%27s fighting EVA-05%2C he loses the ability to wield that weapon%2C and then watches as his weapon is out of his hand. That%27s when being the Eternal Soldier comes into play. He gets a fraction of a second to use his weapon%2C and he unconciously does just that via giving Jet Alone some hand-to-hand capability in that briefest of moments. Thus%2C the %22I Am Hero%22 text reappearing%2C the sudden coding of Jet Alone%27s combat abilities long enough to disable the jamming device%2C et cetera.%0D%0A%0D%0ADJ has been able to synchronize before in non-crisis situation - in synch tests%2C in the %22dummy EVAs%22%2C and other times that I can%27t think of. But when he shouldn%27t be able to some things%2C being the Eternal Soldier gives him an added edge. Which is probably part of what allowed EVA-01 to generate Elerium-115 Colliders%2C for the record.%0D%0A-Eliot %22Yay%2C a topic that%27s starting series speculation%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 13|8|11|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|trigger||15:40:13|06/25/2001|%3EDJ has been able to synchronize before in non-crisis situation - in %0D%0A%3Esynch tests%2C in the %22dummy EVAs%22%2C and other times that I can%27t think %0D%0A%3Eof. But when he shouldn%27t be able to some things%2C being the Eternal %0D%0A%3ESoldier gives him an added edge. Which is probably part of what %0D%0A%3Eallowed EVA-01 to generate Elerium-115 Colliders%2C for the record. %0D%0A%0D%0AGood point. I sweated that one...it%27s just that the dummy synch seems to be different than the EVA%27s themselves. After all%2C Rei had problems with EVA-00 but no problem with the dummy tests. The only cross compatibility test I remember reading about is the one where DJ says that EVA %22smells like Rei%22. He also %28like Rei%29 felt distinctly unwelcome%2C and only acheived 25%25. Then it freaked out...until he consciosly demanded that it stop in order to save his friends from being smashed. %0D%0A%0D%0AThe relevant secion in in NXE 2-6. I almost copied it%2C but figured someone who hadn%27t gotten that far would hurt me.%0D%0A%0D%0AI speculate that Moloch %28being somewhat self-aware%29 is not a %22normal%22 weapon%2C but simliar to Lucifer in being a fallen angel. The other EVA appear to be made with synthetic cores%2C and synthetic bodies based on EVAs 00 %26 01. Perhaps the simliarity was enought to start synchonization %28a %22known%22 weapon%29%2C but Moloch%27s resistance %28Lucifer didn%27t appear to resist%29 kept the rate down%2C until DJ is in a %22combat%22 situation. Then DJ has total control. Wonder what his synch rate was like at that moment.%0D%0A%0D%0AThoughts%3F%0D%0A%0D%0Aspeculatively%2C %0D%0At.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E-Eliot %22Yay%2C a topic that%27s starting series speculation%22 Lefebvre %0D%0A%3E-%3D%28%29%3D- %0D%0A%3EWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most %0D%0A%3Eof it. %0D%0A%3E%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D %0D%0A%3EProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A 15|9|13|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||16:02:36|06/25/2001|%3EGood point. I sweated that one...it%27s just that the dummy synch seems %0D%0A%3Eto be different than the EVA%27s themselves.%0D%0A%0D%0AYes%2C it ends in an Angel attack. %3B%3E%0D%0A%0D%0ASorry. Couldn%27t resist.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThe only cross compatibility test I remember reading about is the one where DJ %0D%0A%3Esays that EVA %22smells like Rei%22. He also %28like Rei%29 felt distinctly %0D%0A%3Eunwelcome%2C and only acheived 25%25. Then it freaked out...until he %0D%0A%3Econsciosly demanded that it stop in order to save his friends from %0D%0A%3Ebeing smashed. %0D%0A%0D%0AThere were other tests that were talked about%2C and I assumed that they may include some cross-compatibility tests. Even if they didn%27t%2C DJ took part in them and synchronized with EVA-01 in a distinctly non-combat situation%2C so he wasn%27t using Lucifer as a weapon at those times%2C he was just synching up.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI speculate that Moloch %28being somewhat self-aware%29 is not a %22normal%22 %0D%0A%3Eweapon%2C but simliar to Lucifer in being a fallen angel. The other EVA %0D%0A%3Eappear to be made with synthetic cores%2C and synthetic bodies based on %0D%0A%3EEVAs 00 %26 01. Perhaps the simliarity was enought to start %0D%0A%3Esynchonization %28a %22known%22 weapon%29%2C but Moloch%27s resistance %28Lucifer %0D%0A%3Edidn%27t appear to resist%29 kept the rate down%2C until DJ is in a %22combat%22 %0D%0A%3Esituation. Then DJ has total control. Wonder what his synch rate was %0D%0A%3Elike at that moment. %0D%0A%0D%0AI still don%27t think of the EVAs in the scope of weapons. DJ%2C in that case%2C was indeed using the only weapons he had available to stop Moloch - his willpower and his EVA talent. He used them to kick Moloch into submission and shut the unit down%2C rather than synchronize with the unit. After all%2C Moloch was little more than a glorified zombie - quite different from the still-very-much-alive Lucifer.%0D%0A-Eliot %22Yay%2C less than an hour before work ends%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 24|10|15|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|trigger||16:46:22|06/25/2001|I told myself that I had to do some work%2C but...%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThere were other tests that were talked about%2C and I assumed that they %0D%0A%3Emay include some cross-compatibility tests. Even if they didn%27t%2C DJ %0D%0A%3Etook part in them and synchronized with EVA-01 in a distinctly %0D%0A%3Enon-combat situation%2C so he wasn%27t using Lucifer as a weapon at those %0D%0A%3Etimes%2C he was just synching up. %0D%0A%0D%0AIn 2-6 Jon speculates if he will pilot a different EVA after 03%27s damage in space. %22Perhaps if the cross-compatibility testing rumor were true%2C he might have a chance to learn more.%22 Seems to indicate that this was the first time anyone tried it. Season 3%2C DJ is specially tested on EVA-03 to see what his damage was after his reserection. %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ll go out on a limb and say that DJ doesn%27t have a %22special EVA talent%22. He just happens to be Longinus%2C and like anyone with a touch of the celestial%2C can interface. Shinji is clearly _not_ normal%2C but I won%27t speak to him. I wonder what Asuka%27s talent is%3F Other than unstoppable will%2C I haven%27t figured it out...or seen evidence of it.%0D%0A%0D%0AOOOH%2C brain cramp. DJ has interfaced with another EVA...EVA-02. And he screws up Asuka%27s interface by thinking in English and not trying to interface. Only when he puts his will to it do they _both_ interface. In a combat situation. Maybe DJ can only lend his SSV pattern in a time of crisis. I think my theory still holds some water.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI still don%27t think of the EVAs in the scope of weapons. DJ%2C in that %0D%0A%3Ecase%2C was indeed using the only weapons he had available to stop %0D%0A%3EMoloch - his willpower and his EVA talent. He used them to kick %0D%0A%3EMoloch into submission and shut the unit down%2C rather than synchronize %0D%0A%3Ewith the unit. After all%2C Moloch was little more than a glorified %0D%0A%3Ezombie - quite different from the still-very-much-alive Lucifer. %0D%0A%0D%0AFunny%2C I don%27t see DJ as a weapon. I think of the EVAs like really%2C really cool hardsuits or like a much more interesting take on the whole Voltron experience. They idea of merging into a more powerful being without losing your soul. The production models are weapons -- they lack souls until the Children enfuse them. Lucifer and Moloch are special%2C but until awakened%2C still weapons. %0D%0A%0D%0AI will also refer to 2-6 where John compares Moloch to Lucifer and notes how they are both different from EVA-03. He seems to think that they%27re alike.%0D%0A%0D%0Aeek%2C must work%2C %0D%0At.%0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A 34|11|24|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||08:17:50|06/26/2001|%3EI told myself that I had to do some work%2C but... %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ve been telling myself that since the day I started working here%2C and I have yet to have it carry any actual force. Don%27t feel bad. %3B%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EFunny%2C I don%27t see DJ as a weapon. I think of the EVAs like really%2C %0D%0A%3Ereally cool hardsuits or like a much more interesting take on the %0D%0A%3Ewhole Voltron experience.%0D%0A%0D%0AConsidering the ending of %5Bi%5DBubblegum Crisis 2040%5B%2Fi%5D%2C the comparison of the EVAs to hardsuits is downright eerie. Not quite the same thing... but very%2C very close.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI will also refer to 2-6 where John compares Moloch to Lucifer and %0D%0A%3Enotes how they are both different from EVA-03. He seems to think that %0D%0A%3Ethey%27re alike. %0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C they are the only EVAs that used to be separate entities. %3B%3E%0D%0A-Eliot %22Gryphon already said most things I could have%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 37|12|34|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Mephron||10:49:40|06/26/2001|I haven%27t seen the end of BGC2040 yet. If that was something even close to a spoiler you%27re going to be the recipient of a Vorlon Scout %27Mass Assault%27 Merit Badge test.....%0D%0A%0D%0A--%0D%0AGeoff Depew - Mephron%0D%0A%22Big O%21 Showtime%21%22 38|13|37|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||10:55:42|06/26/2001|%3EI haven%27t seen the end of BGC2040 yet. If that was something even %0D%0A%3Eclose to a spoiler you%27re going to be the recipient of a Vorlon Scout %0D%0A%3E%27Mass Assault%27 Merit Badge test..... %0D%0A%0D%0ANo%2C it wasn%27t a spoiler. You wouldn%27t even have the vaguest idea what I was talking about unless you%27d seen Episode 16%2C and until Episode 19 it still wouldn%27t really make a whole lot of sense. Just made me think of a connection.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe last two DVDs are out%2C so you should really see the ending soon. Damn%2C but it%27s a good series.%0D%0A-Eliot %22Much better than the original%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 26|8|11|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||16:56:53|06/25/2001|%3E%3EGryphon - are you saying that DJ%27s talent only works under the stress %0D%0A%3E%3Eof combat%3F That testing in neutral setting would do very little%3F %0D%0A%0D%0ANo%2C but another poster summed up part of what I was trying to say pretty well%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThat wasn%27t what I took away from Gryphon%27s post%2C although it%27s %0D%0A%3Ecertainly an interesting theory. Jet Alone is a weapon - a very big%2C %0D%0A%3Every ornate weapon%2C but a weapon just the same.%0D%0A%0D%0AThis is basically what I was saying - that Jet Alone is a weapon%2C and one which is built such that DJ can wield it%2C at which point his ability to make effective use of weapons comes into play. A production model EVA could be argued to be a weapon%2C or not%2C depending on how strict your definition is%2C but it doesn%27t really matter%2C because it%27s not a weapon that%27s configured such that DJ can pick it up and use it. Take a more mundane example - a Sidewinder missile is a weapon%2C but you wouldn%27t expect DJ to just be able to pick one up and employ it effectively. A production model EVA%27s got no handle as far as he%27s concerned. He can%27t pick it up and use it%2C so his talent does no good.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhat happened during his one test with EVA-00 is a different matter entirely%2C and has to do with the way Moloch died and the confusion of echoes that incident left in what remained of him. I could elaborate%2C but it would give away something about the relationship between DJ and Lucifer that I%27d rather leave to be disclosed in its own time.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 27|9|26|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|trigger||17:56:58|06/25/2001|%3EThis is basically what I was saying - that Jet Alone is a weapon%2C and %0D%0A%3Eone which is built such that DJ can wield it%2C at which point his %0D%0A%3Eability to make effective use of weapons comes into play. A %0D%0A%3Eproduction model EVA could be argued to be a weapon%2C or not%2C depending %0D%0A%3Eon how strict your definition is%2C but it doesn%27t really matter%2C %0D%0A%3Ebecause it%27s not a weapon that%27s configured such that DJ can pick it %0D%0A%3Eup and use it. Take a more mundane example - a Sidewinder missile is %0D%0A%3Ea weapon%2C but you wouldn%27t expect DJ to just be able to pick one up %0D%0A%3Eand employ it effectively. A production model EVA%27s got no handle as %0D%0A%3Efar as he%27s concerned. He can%27t pick it up and use it%2C so his talent %0D%0A%3Edoes no good. %0D%0A%0D%0AWow. That%27s a much different spin. Hmm%2C gotta think about it as an interface thing%2C an intrinsic abilty. Ergo%2C if the weapon lacks a component that he cannot manipulate %28ie%2C sidewinder w%2Fo jet%29 DJ can%27t use it. %0D%0A%0D%0AThen does that make Asuka the tool with which he helped her guide EVA-02%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EWhat happened during his one test with EVA-00 is a different matter %0D%0A%3Eentirely%2C and has to do with the way Moloch died and the confusion of %0D%0A%3Eechoes that incident left in what remained of him. I could elaborate%2C %0D%0A%3Ebut it would give away something about the relationship between DJ and %0D%0A%3ELucifer that I%27d rather leave to be disclosed in its own time. %0D%0A%0D%0ABien. I shalln%27t ask. Between you and truss%2C as well as the gentleman who started this%2C I%27ve received much more insight than I expected. %0D%0A%0D%0AMerci%2C%0D%0At.%0D%0A %0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A 28|10|27|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||18:12:07|06/25/2001|%3EThen does that make Asuka the tool with which he helped her guide %0D%0A%3EEVA-02%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AYes. Which%2C yes%2C means that at certain times and under certain conditions%2C Asuka Soryu-Langley is a weapon. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A%26l%3B%22Well%2C %5Bi%5DI%5B%2Fi%5D could have told you %5Bi%5Dthat%5B%2Fi%5D%2C%22 muttered Jon.%26r%3B%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 35|11|28|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||08:19:11|06/26/2001|%3EYes. Which%2C yes%2C means that at certain times and under certain %0D%0A%3Econditions%2C Asuka Soryu-Langley is a weapon. %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0ASo what are her handles%3F %3B%3E%0D%0A-Eliot %22I%27ve got a guess...%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 54|11|28|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Mephron||11:21:15|06/27/2001|%3EYes. Which%2C yes%2C means that at certain times and under certain %0D%0A%3Econditions%2C Asuka Soryu-Langley is a weapon. %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E--G. %0D%0A%3E%26l%3B%22Well%2C %5Bi%5DI%5B%2Fi%5D could have told you %5Bi%5Dthat%5B%2Fi%5D%2C%22 muttered Jon.%26r%3B %0D%0A%0D%0AAlmost every redhead can be a weapon at some point.%0D%0A%0D%0AOne female friend of mine has been known what we call her %27mass murder%27 dress. And being a red-haired woman just makes it worse.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28Why a %27mass murder%27 dress%3F Well%2C some women dress to kill....%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--%0D%0AGeoff Depew - Mephron%0D%0A%22Big O%21 Showtime%21%22 55|12|54|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||11:26:25|06/27/2001|%3EAlmost every redhead can be a weapon at some point. %0D%0A%0D%0AHmm... my girlfriend%27s ex-roommate was a redhead in addition to being one of the most evil and self-centered individuals that I%27ve ever met...%0D%0A%0D%0ANow I don%27t think I%27ll ever be able to think about her without getting a mental picture of Jet Alone wandering off against orders in NXE%2C while the EVA techs look on in partial terror and partial bemusement that the impractical and unlikely weapon turned out to be exactly that.%0D%0A-Eliot %22It%27s actually not a bad comparison to her%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 78|11|28|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|TPL_Vinny||01:00:29|07/04/2001|%3EYes. Which%2C yes%2C means that at certain times and under certain %0D%0A%3Econditions%2C Asuka Soryu-Langley is a weapon. %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E--G. %0D%0A%3E%26l%3B%22Well%2C %5Bi%5DI%5B%2Fi%5D could have told you %5Bi%5Dthat%5B%2Fi%5D%2C%22 muttered Jon.%26r%3B %0D%0A%3E-%3E%3C- %0D%0A%0D%0AOr%2C Asuka is a tool. Which really doesn%27t make sense%2C if you think about it%2C but she still could be a tool.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m not cynical. I%27m just overrealistic.%0D%0A%0D%0ATwinkhood Productions%2C Limited.%0D%0A%0D%0AChairman%2C CEO and Non-Corporate God%2C %0D%0A%0D%0A Innovafertimus. 100|12|78|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Khirsah||17:34:29|07/06/2001|%3E%3EYes. Which%2C yes%2C means that at certain times and under certain %0D%0A%3E%3Econditions%2C Asuka Soryu-Langley is a weapon. %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EOr%2C Asuka is a tool. Which really doesn%27t make sense%2C if you think %0D%0A%3Eabout it%2C but she still could be a tool. %0D%0A%0D%0AShe may not be a tool%2Fweapon as far as most people would consider such%2C but to someone with a Gift like the Eternal Warrior would have%2C and under conditions like an Angel attack%2C she%27d be a rather powerful weapon%2C I%27d think... German%2C redhead%2C and a temper that really oughta belong to a drunk Irishman. I don%27t think many mortals would be stupid enough to get in her way%2C y%27know%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A 29|9|26|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|ejheckathorn||18:47:42|06/25/2001|Interesting. So%2C DJ does not have the EVA talent as such%2C but instead has%2C as the Eternal Soldier%2C the ability to use any weapon that a normal human could pick up and use.%0D%0A%0D%0AThis leads to a couple of interesting questions%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A1. If DJ does not have the EVA talent%2C then what led NERV%2FSEELE to recruit him in the first place%3F Are his abilities as the Eternal Soldier capable of mimicing the EVA talent in certain situations%2C such as the tests used to identify the EVA talent%3F Or perhaps more intrigingly%2C did Natla _know_ what he was%3F In NXE 3-8%2C Gendou Ikari speculated that Natla wanted to find the Eternal Soldier and use him as a weapon. However%2C this was only speculation on his part%2C as was his implication that Natla did not know what DJ was.%0D%0A%0D%0A2. What is the nature of the EVA talent%3F So far%2C everyone in the series who has piloted an EVA has been revealed to be a celestial of some sort%2C with the exceptions of%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A A%29 DJ Croft%2C whose case has already been gone over in depth%3B%0D%0A B%29 Shinji Ikari %28who%2C judging by his generation of an AT field on two%0D%0A separate occasions%2C has been touched by the celestial in some way%29%2A%3B%0D%0A C%29 Asuka Soryu-Langley%0D%0A%0D%0A%2AAssuming it _was_ him who was generating it.%0D%0A %0D%0AEric J. Heckathorn%0D%0Aericjh%40stargate.net 30|10|29|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||18:55:00|06/25/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-25-01 AT 07:36 PM (EDT)[/font][p]%3E1. If DJ does not have the EVA talent%2C then what led NERV%2FSEELE to %0D%0A%3Erecruit him in the first place%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AInitially%2C chronology. He happens to be of the correct age to have been possibly conceived at the time of the Second Impact. After that%2C the aptitude testing the Marduk Institute performed %28which was disguised as testing for something else%29 indicated he%27d be good in a fight%2C and had certain neural properties that would lend themselves to interface control. After that%2C it was just a matter of getting him into an EVA and trying it out. It was pure dumb luck that the only functional EVA at the time was EVA-01.%0D%0A%0D%0AOh - and he%27s Jon%27s half-brother%2C sort of. SEELE were interested to see how the closest relative to the non-celestial part of Jon%27s genetic code would perform under similar circumstances.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E2. What is the nature of the EVA talent%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AThe %22EVA talent%22 is a notion conceived of by the Technical Division to explain why these children can do what they do. It%27s kind of like epicycles - there%27s no evidence that it actually exists per se%2C except that %5Bi%5Dsomething%5B%2Fi%5D must be permitting them to do so.%0D%0A%0D%0AI can%27t address your individual examples without giving away the store%2C though.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 31|11|30|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|ejheckathorn||19:18:54|06/25/2001|%3EI can%27t address your individual examples without giving away the %0D%0A%3Estore%2C though. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E--G. %0D%0A%0D%0AThat%27s fine... I wasn%27t really expecting you to be able to say much in that department. I was more or less just throwing them out for discussion.%0D%0A%0D%0AEric J. Heckathorn%0D%0Aericjh%40stargate.net 75|11|30|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|merlinthp||18:37:48|07/03/2001|%3EOh - and he%27s Jon%27s half-brother%2C sort of. SEELE were interested to %0D%0A%3Esee how the closest relative to the non-celestial part of Jon%27s %0D%0A%3Egenetic code would perform under similar circumstances. %0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s amazing how%2C after reading NXE for the Nth time%2C that still hadn%27t registered. I%27m having a Babylon 5 moment here...%0D%0A%0D%0A-- %0D%0AMerlin the Happy Pig%0D%0A%22Anyone care to explain every other nuance of the plot to me%3F%22 76|11|30|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Laudre||00:46:51|07/04/2001|%3EOh - and he%27s Jon%27s half-brother%2C sort of. SEELE were interested to %0D%0A%3Esee how the closest relative to the non-celestial part of Jon%27s %0D%0A%3Egenetic code would perform under similar circumstances. %0D%0A%0D%0AOkay%2C this just registered this time around. I know that Fox Mulder is DJ%27s father... so he%27s also Jon Ellison%27s father in some sense%3F And if that%27s so%2C then where does Jon%27s celestial DNA come from%3F Dana Scully%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean --%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebrokenlink.org%5D %5Bb%5DThe Broken Link 4.0 is live%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%22Imagination is more important than knowledge.%22 -- Albert Einstein%0D%0A%22It%27s not easy being green.%22 -- Kermit the Frog 77|12|76|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||00:57:32|07/04/2001|%3E%3EOh - and he%27s Jon%27s half-brother%2C sort of. SEELE were interested to %0D%0A%3E%3Esee how the closest relative to the non-celestial part of Jon%27s %0D%0A%3E%3Egenetic code would perform under similar circumstances. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EOkay%2C this just registered this time around. I know that Fox Mulder %0D%0A%3Eis DJ%27s father... so he%27s also Jon Ellison%27s father in some sense%3F %0D%0A%3EAnd if that%27s so%2C then where does Jon%27s celestial DNA come from%3F Dana %0D%0A%3EScully%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AThat%27s where the %22sort of%22 part comes in. Gendou mentions to DJ that they used Mulder as the baseline for the E branch of Project Ascension%3B that%27s where Jon%27s human DNA component came from. The rest is based on DNA profiles they got from the celestials they had on hand - Lucifer%2C Moloch%2C and Reilael %28yes%2C that means that Rei is sort of Jon%27s quarter-mother or some such - it%27s really not very relevant at that point%2C especially given that it%27s the celestial side of the equation we%27re talking about%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AAll of which%2C as I%27m sure you%27ve worked out already%2C means that Agent Scully%27s participation was not genetic. I guess they didn%27t have those creche chambers working yet when they prototyped the E series... %0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A%28yes%2C that means that Jon is the only one of them born of woman%2C as the Bard put it%29%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 79|13|77|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|TPL_Vinny||01:10:23|07/04/2001|%3EGendou mentions to DJ that %0D%0A%3Ethey used Mulder as the baseline for the E branch of Project %0D%0A%3EAscension%3B that%27s where Jon%27s human DNA component came from. %0D%0A%0D%0A%3EBenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin %0D%0A%3EEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AWhere%2C O Where is this%3F Did I skim that part in the story%3F %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AIf everyone thought totally for themselves%2C there would be no Democrats.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0ATPL Non-Corporate God%0D%0A%0D%0A Innovafertimus 80|14|79|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||01:19:52|07/04/2001|%3E%3EGendou mentions to DJ that %0D%0A%3E%3Ethey used Mulder as the baseline for the E branch of Project %0D%0A%3E%3EAscension%3B that%27s where Jon%27s human DNA component came from. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EWhere%2C O Where is this%3F Did I skim that part in the story%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AApparently so. It%27s in %5Bi%5DExodus 3%3A4 - The Trigger Effect%5B%2Fi%5D%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btt%5D%0D%0A%09%22Agent Mulder provided much of the baseline data for the %27E%27%0D%0Abranch of Project Ascension%2C%22 said Ikari. %22Once those tests were%0D%0Adone%2C what was left was put into cryo-storage in case some of the data%0D%0Aneeded to be re-examined later.%22 Ikari pushed his glasses up his%0D%0Anose%2C blanking out his eyes again%2C and went on%2C %22If you had cycled%0D%0Adown -that- hibernaculum and opened it%2C you%27d have been in for a nasty%0D%0Ashock.%22%0D%0A%5B%2Ftt%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EIf everyone thought totally for themselves%2C there would be no %0D%0A%3EDemocrats. %0D%0A%0D%0AYM %22political parties of any kind%22. HTH. HAND.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 83|15|80|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Wedge||02:24:36|07/04/2001|%3E%3E%3EGendou mentions to DJ that %0D%0A%3E%3E%3Ethey used Mulder as the baseline for the E branch of Project %0D%0A%3E%3E%3EAscension%3B that%27s where Jon%27s human DNA component came from. %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EWhere%2C O Where is this%3F Did I skim that part in the story%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EApparently so. It%27s in %5Bi%5DExodus 3%3A4 - The Trigger Effect%5B%2Fi%5D%3A %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%5Btt%5D %0D%0A%3E %22Agent Mulder provided much of the baseline data for the %27E%27 %0D%0A%3Ebranch of Project Ascension%2C%22 said Ikari. %22Once those tests were %0D%0A%3Edone%2C what was left was put into cryo-storage in case some of the data %0D%0A%3Eneeded to be re-examined later.%22 Ikari pushed his glasses up his %0D%0A%3Enose%2C blanking out his eyes again%2C and went on%2C %22If you had cycled %0D%0A%3Edown -that- hibernaculum and opened it%2C you%27d have been in for a nasty %0D%0A%3Eshock.%22 %0D%0A%3E%5B%2Ftt%5D %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0ASo are you saying that Gendou was indeed telling the truth and not jerking DJ%27s chain %28or being made to jerk DJ%27s chain%2C to be specific%29%3F And that Mulder%27s unrecoverable remains were what occupied that hibernaculum%2C meaning that the only way for him to suddenly turn up not-dead %28as he does every other season on %5Bi%5DThe X-Files%5B%2Fi%5D%29 would either mean that a clone of him would appear %28which might be lame%29 or that the remains were of a clone%2C and the real Agent Mulder is somewhere else yet to be discovered %28which might not be lame%29%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd answering that would be telling%2C wouldn%27t it%3F Nevermind. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22saaaausaaaage... %22%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0AChad Collier%0D%0ADigital Bitch%0D%0AJ. Random VFX Company 86|16|83|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||02:53:54|07/04/2001|%3ESo are you saying that Gendou was indeed telling the truth %0D%0A%0D%0AI state unequivocally that the part about Mulder having been used for the E-branch baselines is true%2C which makes DJ and Jon%2C in a technical sense%2C half-brothers %28or thereabouts%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe rest%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AMu.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 106|17|86|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|tabris||15:51:44|07/08/2001|%3E%3ESo are you saying that Gendou was indeed telling the truth %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI state unequivocally that the part about Mulder having been used for %0D%0A%3Ethe E-branch baselines is true%2C which makes DJ and Jon%2C in a technical %0D%0A%3Esense%2C half-brothers %A5or thereabouts%A4%A9 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThe rest%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EMu%A9 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E--G%A9 %0D%0A%3E-%3E%3C- %0D%0A%3EBenjamin D%A9 Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin %0D%0A%3EEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww%A9eyrie-productions%A9com%2F %0D%0A%0D%0AWhat if Mulder was part celestial%3F After all%2C he has been abducted by aliens%A9 What if not content to merely observe%2C they changed his DNA%3F That may contribute to the connection btwn Jon and DJ%2C as well as partly explain DJ being touched by an ev%5Bb%5Dangel%5B%2Fb%5Dion %A5yes%2C I stole that from somebody%2C can%27t remember who%A4%A9%0D%0A%0D%0AI realize that you may not decide to answer this%2C given that anything is more than %5Bi%5Dmu%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0Atabris%A9%0D%0AI believe that man should be an independent agent%0D%0Ain this universe%3B able to guide their own destiny%A9%0D%0A 107|18|106|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||16:21:36|07/08/2001|That%27s kind of neat how your post has all the periods converted to copyright symbols. Please find out what%27s causing it and turn it off.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EWhat if Mulder was part celestial%3F After all%2C he has been abducted by %0D%0A%3Ealiens%A9 What if not content to merely observe%2C they changed his DNA%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AInteresting theory%2C but wrong.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 108|19|107|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|tabris||17:20:52|07/08/2001|%3EThat%27s kind of neat how your post has all the periods converted to %0D%0A%3Ecopyright symbols. Please find out what%27s causing it and turn it off. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0AI think it is something weird w%2F Mozilla 0.9.2%28Linux Mandrake 8.0rc1 and kernel 2.4.5-ac24%29 and the char mapping %28it thought the charset was ARMSCII-8 %28Armenian%29%2C it%27s been reset to Windows-1252. I couldn%27t see it in Mozilla%2C but links showed it.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%3EWhat if Mulder was part celestial%3F After all%2C he has been abducted by %0D%0A%3E%3Ealiens. What if not content to merely observe%2C they changed his DNA%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EInteresting theory%2C but wrong.%0D%0A%0D%0ADang it. It would have been interesting. In the meantime I am earnestly awaiting NXE%3ATMP%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E--G. %0D%0A%3E-%3E%3C- %0D%0A%3EBenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin %0D%0A%3EEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A 81|13|77|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Laudre||01:24:36|07/04/2001|%3EAll of which%2C as I%27m sure you%27ve worked out already%2C means that Agent %0D%0A%3EScully%27s participation was not genetic. I guess they didn%27t have %0D%0A%3Ethose creche chambers working yet when they prototyped the E series... %0D%0A%0D%0AHmmm. Okay%2C until you laid this out%2C I%27d figured that Scully%27s genetic material had been used for Jon%27s human DNA... the green eyes were what got me thinking that. I missed Gendou mentioning this bit about Mulder%2C otherwise I would have figured this out earlier. Even then%2C I would probably have figured that Scully had already been pregnant with Mulder%27s baby and they somehow managed to make the child into a half-celestial. %28I%27m an X-Phile and a %27shipper. Sue me.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean --%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebrokenlink.org%5D %5Bb%5DThe Broken Link 4.0 is live%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%22Imagination is more important than knowledge.%22 -- Albert Einstein%0D%0A%22It%27s not easy being green.%22 -- Kermit the Frog 82|14|81|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||01:28:04|07/04/2001|%3EHmmm. Okay%2C until you laid this out%2C I%27d figured that Scully%27s %0D%0A%3Egenetic material had been used for Jon%27s human DNA... the green eyes %0D%0A%3Ewere what got me thinking that. %0D%0A%0D%0ANope - the eyes are Lucifer%27s. That%27s why they have four pupils apiece... %0D%0A%0D%0A%3Ethen%2C I would probably have figured that Scully had already been %0D%0A%3Epregnant with Mulder%27s baby and they somehow managed to make the child %0D%0A%3Einto a half-celestial.%0D%0A%0D%0AThat would have meant our boy Fox was a very industrious boy indeed that last week of his life. Not %28if you%27ll pardon the word%29 inconceivable%2C but given how busy that week was%2C not all that likely either. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 90|15|82|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||08:50:11|07/05/2001|%3ENope - the eyes are Lucifer%27s. That%27s why they have four pupils %0D%0A%3Eapiece... %0D%0A%0D%0AI can%27t express how wrong a picture I have of Scully sitting with her fellow abductees and cradling a little Jon right now...%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThat would have meant our boy Fox was a very industrious boy indeed %0D%0A%3Ethat last week of his life. Not %28if you%27ll pardon the word%29 %0D%0A%3Einconceivable%2C but given how busy that week was%2C not all that likely %0D%0A%3Eeither. %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AAnd DJ was upset that people were upping %5Bb%5Dhis%5B%2Fb%5D score without justification. He should see what his dad%27s score is now. %28I%27ll attribute him being %22well-read%22 to precisely that as well.%29%0D%0A%0D%0AThere%27s no chance that Misato is really an age-regressed Samantha%2C is there%3F %3B%3E%0D%0A-Eliot %22%27Who%27s the paranoid FBI agent with a dead sister that gets all the chicks%3F%27 %27FOX%21%21%27 %27You %5Bb%5Ddamn%5B%2Fb%5D right.%27%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 91|16|90|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Laudre||12:52:28|07/05/2001|%3E-Eliot %22%27Who%27s the paranoid FBI agent with a dead sister that gets all %0D%0A%3Ethe chicks%3F%27 %27FOX%21%21%27 %27You %5Bb%5Ddamn%5B%2Fb%5D right.%27%22 Lefebvre %0D%0A%0D%0AThis broke me but good. Bastard.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean --%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebrokenlink.org%5D %5Bb%5DThe Broken Link 4.0 is live%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%22Imagination is more important than knowledge.%22 -- Albert Einstein%0D%0A%22It%27s not easy being green.%22 -- Kermit the Frog 92|16|90|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Pangaro||15:08:27|07/05/2001|%3E-Eliot %22%27Who%27s the paranoid FBI agent with a dead sister that gets all %0D%0A%3Ethe chicks%3F%27 %27FOX%21%21%27 %27You %5Bb%5Ddamn%5B%2Fb%5D right.%27%22 Lefebvre %0D%0A%3E-%3D%28%29%3D- %0D%0A%0D%0AThat line broke me beyond repair...%0D%0A%0D%0APangaro%0D%0AMaestro en las artes del escabio y la borrachera. 93|16|90|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Wedge||17:09:53|07/05/2001|%3E-Eliot %22%27Who%27s the paranoid FBI agent with a dead sister that gets all %0D%0A%3Ethe chicks%3F%27 %27FOX%21%21%27 %27You %5Bb%5Ddamn%5B%2Fb%5D right.%27%22 Lefebvre %0D%0A%0D%0A%22Her name is Bambi%3F%22%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Yeah%2C both her parents were naturalists. Her theory is that UFO%27s are actually nocturnal insect swarms passing through electrical air fields.%22%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Her name is Bambi%3F%22%0D%0A%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22saaaausaaaage... %22%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0AChad Collier%0D%0ADigital Bitch%0D%0AJ. Random VFX Company 94|17|93|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Laudre||20:15:54|07/05/2001|%3E%3E-Eliot %22%27Who%27s the paranoid FBI agent with a dead sister that gets all %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe chicks%3F%27 %27FOX%21%21%27 %27You %5Bb%5Ddamn%5B%2Fb%5D right.%27%22 Lefebvre %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%22Her name is Bambi%3F%22 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%22Yeah%2C both her parents were naturalists. Her theory is that UFO%27s are %0D%0A%3Eactually nocturnal insect swarms passing through electrical air %0D%0A%3Efields.%22 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%22Her name is Bambi%3F%22 %0D%0A%0D%0A%22War of the Coprophages.%22 I love that ep %5E_%5E.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean --%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebrokenlink.org%5D %5Bb%5DThe Broken Link 4.0 is live%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%22Imagination is more important than knowledge.%22 -- Albert Einstein%0D%0A%22It%27s not easy being green.%22 -- Kermit the Frog 103|16|90|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|remande||21:56:12|07/07/2001|%0D%0A%3E-Eliot %22%27Who%27s the paranoid FBI agent with a dead sister that gets all %0D%0A%3Ethe chicks%3F%27 %27FOX%21%21%27 %27You %5Bb%5Ddamn%5B%2Fb%5D right.%27%22 Lefebvre %0D%0A%0D%0AFox has a dead sister that gets all the chicks%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AEwww.%0D%0A%0D%0A --rR 104|17|103|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Mister Fnord||23:53:38|07/07/2001|%3E%0D%0A%3E%3E-Eliot %22%27Who%27s the paranoid FBI agent with a dead sister that gets all %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe chicks%3F%27 %27FOX%21%21%27 %27You %5Bb%5Ddamn%5B%2Fb%5D right.%27%22 Lefebvre %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EFox has a dead sister that gets all the chicks%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EEwww. %0D%0A%0D%0AMust be a Goth thing.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E --rR %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AMr. Fnord%2C no%2C I don%27t know why I said that%2C either.%0D%0A--%0D%0AThe Jihad to Destroy Barney the Dinosaur%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.jihad.net%2F%0D%0A%22WE%27RE STILL HERE%2C GODDAMMIT%21%22 109|17|103|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||08:02:35|07/10/2001|%3EFox has a dead sister that gets all the chicks%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EEwww. %0D%0A%0D%0AAll the little Samanthas had to come from %5Bb%5Dsomewhere%5B%2Fb%5D%2C didn%27t they%3F%0D%0A-Eliot %22Since I%27ve not been able to check the forums in three days%2C I will be doing this for at least an hour%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 114|18|109|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Astynax||19:55:14|07/10/2001|%0D%0A%3EAll the little Samanthas had to come from %5Bb%5Dsomewhere%5B%2Fb%5D%2C didn%27t %0D%0A%3Ethey%3F %0D%0A%0D%0ASomebody had to put all this confusion here.%0D%0A%0D%0A-%3D%7B%28Astynax%29%7D%3D-%0D%0A%22Couldn%27t resist...%22 41|10|29|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Peter Eng||15:41:31|06/26/2001|%3EInteresting. So%2C DJ does not have the EVA talent as such%2C but instead %0D%0A%3Ehas%2C as the Eternal Soldier%2C the ability to use any weapon that a %0D%0A%3Enormal human could pick up and use. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AYeek. DJ%27s got a modified Malakite of Creation attunement%281%29%3F Come to think of it%2C I don%27t think he%27s had to use an improvised weapon yet%2C so I can%27t even assume that it%27s been weakened at all.%0D%0A%0D%0APeter Eng%0D%0A%0D%0A%281%29For those of you who don%27t have a copy of In Nomine%2C Malakim of Creation can use anything as a weapon. Marlael of _.45 Caliber Angel_ has this attunement as well.%0D%0A%0D%0A 68|11|41|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|remande||21:56:50|06/29/2001|%3E%3EInteresting. So%2C DJ does not have the EVA talent as such%2C but instead %0D%0A%3E%3Ehas%2C as the Eternal Soldier%2C the ability to use any weapon that a %0D%0A%3E%3Enormal human could pick up and use. %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYeek. DJ%27s got a modified Malakite of Creation attunement%281%29%3F Come %0D%0A%3Eto think of it%2C I don%27t think he%27s had to use an improvised weapon %0D%0A%3Eyet%2C so I can%27t even assume that it%27s been weakened at all. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EPeter Eng %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ll argue that one%2C noting that EVA-01 is the most improvised weapon in existence. They took the Prince of Darkness and tried to convert him into a tool for humans to operate.%0D%0A%0D%0A --rR 124|7|10|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|yllyana||09:06:14|10/20/2001|%3EA quick note on an early part of the hread. DJ%27s burning hands were %0D%0A%3Ecaused by Rei%27s blood...not Eva 01. %0D%0A%0D%0AYou mean to say that Rei%27s blood is somehow acidic%3F 125|8|124|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||16:17:20|10/20/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Oct-20-01 AT 04:18 PM (EDT)[/font][p]%3E%3EA quick note on an early part of the hread. DJ%27s burning hands were %0D%0A%3E%3Ecaused by Rei%27s blood...not Eva 01. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYou mean to say that Rei%27s blood is somehow acidic%3F %0D%0A%0D%0ANo%3B no it is not.%0D%0A%0D%0AProps to the previous poster%2C though%2C as the only correspondent I%27ve had who picked up on that particular detail.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 126|8|124|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Zenigame||22:35:56|10/21/2001|%3E%3EA quick note on an early part of the hread. DJ%27s burning hands were %0D%0A%3E%3Ecaused by Rei%27s blood...not Eva 01. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYou mean to say that Rei%27s blood is somehow acidic%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AI just had a %5Bi%5Dreally%5B%2Fi%5D strange image%2C no doubt aided by the recent bit of %5Bi%5DChildren of an Elder God%5B%2Fi%5D where all the proto-Reis got loose and started causing havoc%2C but spawned by this comment...%0D%0A%0D%0A--Zenigame %28%22That%27s impossible. She%27d have to be inside this room.%22 The bridge staff hesitates%2C then looks up at the vents...%29%0D%0A 127|9|126|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Laudre||23:22:20|10/21/2001|%3E%3E%3EA quick note on an early part of the hread. DJ%27s burning hands were %0D%0A%3E%3E%3Ecaused by Rei%27s blood...not Eva 01. %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EYou mean to say that Rei%27s blood is somehow acidic%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI just had a %5Bi%5Dreally%5B%2Fi%5D strange image%2C no doubt aided by the recent %0D%0A%3Ebit of %5Bi%5DChildren of an Elder God%5B%2Fi%5D where all the proto-Reis got %0D%0A%3Eloose and started causing havoc%2C but spawned by this comment... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E--Zenigame %28%22That%27s impossible. She%27d have to be inside this room.%22 %0D%0A%3EThe bridge staff hesitates%2C then looks up at the vents...%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ve yet to read CoaEG %28holding off on reading any Eva-fic until I finish my own AU Eva story%29%2C but having read this and considering the idea of Rei and acidic blood...%0D%0A%0D%0A...I now have the mental image of a miniature Rei tearing out of someone%27s abdomen%2C then dancing offstage while singing %22Ragtime Girl.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AMy head can be a strange place to live.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean --%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebrokenlink.org%5D %5Bb%5DThe Broken Link 4.0 is live%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22 -- Terry Pratchett%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Flaudre%2F%7CFollow my random thoughts%5D%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Feva_densetsu%2F%7CFollow my creative process%5D 73|6|8|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Mephron||15:47:54|07/02/2001|%3EThe Eternal Soldier%2C if he must%2C can fight with any weapon he can %0D%0A%3Ewield - but he still has to be able to pick it up in the first place. %0D%0A%0D%0AAfter some recent re-reading%2C this now makes how DJ took out Ramiel in 1%3A5 far more likely on a conceptual level.%0D%0A%0D%0A--%0D%0AGeoff Depew - Mephron%0D%0A%22Big O%21 Showtime%21%22 128|5|7|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|satyap||20:46:07|11/24/2001|%3EThe only connection I can think of is that JA has non-aware decision %0D%0A%3Emaking software for autonomous use%2C which%2C in that particular time of %0D%0A%3Estress for DJ%2C was enough to double in as an actual spiritual essence %0D%0A%3Ewhich DJ%27s specific talent could kick in. Since the production models %0D%0A%3Ehave no such code %28that I know of%29%2C and no real awareness%2C he can%27t %0D%0A%3Emake it go because there%27s nothing for his talent to %27talk to%27. And %0D%0A%0D%0ASo he basically needs an interface card%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AUSB%2C anyone%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A-- %0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fsatya.virtualave.net%2F%0D%0A 99|3|5|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Khirsah||16:57:16|07/06/2001|%3Ewith and Lucifer -recognizing the Eternal Soldier- infused him with it %0D%0A%0D%0ASoldier. In Nomine. Ow. My brain hurts after that possibly-completely-wrong idea clicked together. 4|1|0|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Wedge||17:33:32|06/22/2001|%3EAnyhow%2C been thinking about the situation at the end of 3%3A9... my %0D%0A%3Ecurrent train of thought is that Lucifer%2C rather than absorbing DJ%2C %0D%0A%3Eassimilated him into his body as a protective mechanism. The first %0D%0A%3Etime%2C he did it out of shock%3B this time it was intentional%2C a way to %0D%0A%3Eavoid getting captured. It%27s a bit out-there%2C but within the realm of %0D%0A%3Epossibility. It%27s require some method of absorbing without leaving %0D%0A%3Eany carbon or water in the LCL%2C though%2C which makes it far less %0D%0A%3Elikely. %0D%0A%0D%0AI would argue that the first incorporation of DJ was just as intentional as the second. I%27m not convinced the carbon%2Fwater%2Flcl mixture the first go around really meant anything%2C seeing as the plug ejected and dumped said contents. Lucifer himself gave back DJ afterwords meaning%2C to me anyway%2C that the mixture within really wasn%27t the elemental remains of DJ. If I had to venture a guess%2C the odd mixture the first time around was a marker for the friendly techs to know that he wasn%27t really gone. In the second situation%2C there wasn%27t going to be anyone like that around%2C and Lucifer was aware enough to know that if they thought there was a chance to extract even a lifeless DJ to clone and tamper with like Jon and Rei %28and his father%2C for that matter%2C assuming what Ikari said before the Ethereal that was running him was killed is true%29 that they%27d tear Lucifer apart to get to him. So Lucifer left no trace%2C and they seem to be subsequently uninterested in an unresponsive EVA.%0D%0A%0D%0AThat%27s just my thoughts so far%2C and I could be very%2C very wrong. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0A%22We are totally fluxed.%22%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0AChad Collier%0D%0ADigital Bitch%0D%0AJ. Random VFX Company 9|2|4|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||08:26:03|06/25/2001|%3EI would argue that the first incorporation of DJ was just as %0D%0A%3Eintentional as the second. I%27m not convinced the carbon%2Fwater%2Flcl %0D%0A%3Emixture the first go around really meant anything%2C seeing as the plug %0D%0A%3Eejected and dumped said contents. Lucifer himself gave back DJ %0D%0A%3Eafterwords meaning%2C to me anyway%2C that the mixture within really %0D%0A%3Ewasn%27t the elemental remains of DJ. If I had to venture a guess%2C the %0D%0A%3Eodd mixture the first time around was a marker for the friendly techs %0D%0A%3Eto know that he wasn%27t really gone. In the second situation%2C there %0D%0A%3Ewasn%27t going to be anyone like that around%2C and Lucifer was aware %0D%0A%3Eenough to know that if they thought there was a chance to extract even %0D%0A%3Ea lifeless DJ to clone and tamper with like Jon and Rei %28and his %0D%0A%3Efather%2C for that matter%2C assuming what Ikari said before the Ethereal %0D%0A%3Ethat was running him was killed is true%29 that they%27d tear Lucifer %0D%0A%3Eapart to get to him. So Lucifer left no trace%2C and they seem to be %0D%0A%3Esubsequently uninterested in an unresponsive EVA. %0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s certainly possible%2C and it would make sense%2C considering that both times have been when DJ hit 1%3A1 synchronization for any meaningful length of time. %28He hit 100%25 during the Skyfall Incident%2C but for maybe a few seconds at most%2C and he wasn%27t really doing anything during those seconds except standing and waiting for Rei to do her job.%29 Maybe hitting perfect synch requires the EVA to absorb the pilot - part of the reason why none of the production models could ever hit perfect 1%3A1. In every case where we%27ve seen full synchronization - DJ%2FLucifer in 2%3A9%2C Rei%2FMoloch in 3%3A8%2C and DJ%2FLucifer in 3%3A9 - there%27s been some melding of pilot and Evangelion. One could argue that the only reason Rei wasn%27t absorbed by Moloch was because the circumstances were extremely unusual%2C and that most of what was happening was as a result of her being an angel.%0D%0A%0D%0AThere are%2C however%2C a couple reasons why I tend to doubt that the first time was intentional%3A%0D%0A%5Bol%5D%0D%0A%5Bli%5DThe carbon and water served to let the techs know that someone had been absorbed%2C but it certainly didn%27t help them figure out how to get DJ back. As near as Ritsuko%2C Truss%2C Maya%2C and everyone else could tell%2C DJ was gone forever%2C which was not a reassuring message for the poor NERV personnel.%0D%0A%5Bli%5DLucifer absorbed someone else beforehand%2C and it seemed to clearly be an accident.%0D%0A%5Bli%5DI got the distinct impression%2C from the lines of the mysterious figure %28Lucifer%29 at the release of DJ%2C that Lucifer did not originally intend to release the pilot. He changed his mind from DJ%27s actions and the plea of Rei and Jon%2C but it didn%27t seem like he was very pleased with DJ at that point.%0D%0A%5B%2Fol%5D%0D%0AIt%27s well within the realm of possibility%2C but I think that the carbon-water mixture was DJ%27s physical remains %28I have no doubt that Lucifer could regenerate his body%29. At this point%2C I think Lucifer%27s just regained enough of himself to not leave the evidence.%0D%0A-Eliot %22Well%2C Gryphon hasn%27t outright told me I%27m wrong yet%2C so either he hates me or I%27m on to something%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 12|3|9|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|trigger||15:26:20|06/25/2001|%3EMaybe hitting perfect synch requires the EVA to absorb %0D%0A%3Ethe pilot - part of the reason why none of the production models could %0D%0A%3Eever hit perfect 1%3A1. In every case where we%27ve seen full %0D%0A%3Esynchronization - DJ%2FLucifer in 2%3A9%2C Rei%2FMoloch in 3%3A8%2C and DJ%2FLucifer %0D%0A%3Ein 3%3A9 - there%27s been some melding of pilot and Evangelion. One could %0D%0A%3Eargue that the only reason Rei wasn%27t absorbed by Moloch was because %0D%0A%3Ethe circumstances were extremely unusual%2C and that most of what was %0D%0A%3Ehappening was as a result of her being an angel. %0D%0A%0D%0AWe don%27t know if this happened in the case of the Rei prototype -- which did have the touch of the celestial%2C and still was absorbed.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%5Bli%5DI got the distinct impression%2C from the lines of the mysterious %0D%0A%3Efigure %28Lucifer%29 at the release of DJ%2C that Lucifer did not originally %0D%0A%3Eintend to release the pilot. He changed his mind from DJ%27s actions %0D%0A%3Eand the plea of Rei and Jon%2C but it didn%27t seem like he was very %0D%0A%3Epleased with DJ at that point. %0D%0A%3E%5B%2Fol%5D%0D%0A%0D%0AReally%3F. I didn%27t see a stern Lucifer in that one. A curious Lucifer to be sure%2C but not an unhappy one. Afterall%2C DJ was tested but they both found out %28or confirmed%29 what DJ%27s soul is like. I think Lucifer would have given DJ back if he had thought of it. I guess that time works differently for Lucifer than for the outside world. After all DJ%27s vision quest took 1 month in real time. It appeared to take only a few days in the vision. %0D%0A %0D%0A%3EIt%27s well within the realm of possibility%2C but I think that the %0D%0A%3Ecarbon-water mixture was DJ%27s physical remains %28I have no doubt that %0D%0A%3ELucifer could regenerate his body%29. At this point%2C I think Lucifer%27s %0D%0A%3Ejust regained enough of himself to not leave the evidence. %0D%0A%0D%0AI think that the two experiences were somewhat different. %0D%0A%0D%0AThe only similarity I can see is that DJ%27s physical body dies. This is confirmed both by the remains in the the first situation%2C and DJ%27s death cry in the second. In the first situation%2C the remains match DJ%27s and resemble the remains of the Rei prototype whose body disappeared. It is in Lucifer%27s capacities to grant a soul new%2Fsimiliar body. Afterall we now have Tabriel. %0D%0A%0D%0AIn the second situation%2C DJ%27s last message %28or death rede to the dramatic among us%29 is consciously sent as he is absorbed in Lucifer. Rei%2C John%2C Asuka%2C and Shinji all feel it. And if DJ wasn%27t dead%2C don%27t you think that Rei would tell Asuka%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%28of course%2C there could be a missing scene. Only our esteemed editor would know for sure. But given the shamrock house interlude%2C and that DJ%27s come back from the %27dead%27 before...%29%0D%0A%0D%0AThe differences%2C however%2C outweight the similiarites. %0D%0A%0D%0AIn the first situation%2C Lucifer and DJ unconsciously achive 1%3A1 synchonization. DJ forces Lucifer into it to save everyone. Lucifer pulls on all that is the eternal solider to do so...and in the process becomes fully conscious and almost fully in charge of his powers. DJ%2C on the other hand%2C loses consciousness and %22forgets%22 who and what he was.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn the second situation%2C it%27s a conscious decision%2C with DJ understanding who and what Lucifer is... and what he %28DJ%29 may be. Lucifer begins to share some truths with DJ%2C that lead them both to agree to 1%3A1 synchronization as DJ consciously lends his talent to fight%2C while Lucifer provides the power %28AT field%29 and strength. At the end they both see the necessity of DJ being absorbed%2C rather than captured. To play dumb%2C and pretend that Lucifer is not awake.%0D%0A%0D%0ANotice that DJ doesn%27t lose consciousness in the second situation. He embraces it as necessary. And he accepts that he%27s Longinus...with all that his destiny entails. That%2C I think%2C makes this so much more than the first experience. He and Lucifer are planning something%2C something that made Lucifer absorb all of DJ - clothes and body. DJ%27s corporal form is likely to be %22hidden%22 some where in Lucifer%2C while his soul communes with the not-so-fallen angel.%0D%0A%0D%0AAfter all%2C Lucifer%27s time of testing isn%27t over yet%2C is it%3F Maybe he needs all the help he can get. Perhaps only a fully awake eternal solider can provide that. %0D%0A%0D%0ATotally rampant speculation%3A DJ%2C when he returns%2C will not be the same person. Like Rei and John%2C he will be transformed. I think the hesitant%2C hopeful DJ of Shamrock house demonstrates this. %0D%0A%0D%0Athoughts%3F%0D%0A%0D%0At.%0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A 14|4|12|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||15:54:33|06/25/2001|%3EWe don%27t know if this happened in the case of the Rei prototype -- %0D%0A%3Ewhich did have the touch of the celestial%2C and still was absorbed. %0D%0A%0D%0AI was referring to Moloch%27s Last Stand against EVA-06%2C when most of Moloch%27s power was coming from Reilael. Rei-P%2FT was a special case%2C probably not aware of her celestial heritage.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EReally%3F. I didn%27t see a stern Lucifer in that one. A curious Lucifer %0D%0A%3Eto be sure%2C but not an unhappy one.%0D%0A%0D%0ANo%2C but his words imply that had DJ %22failed%22 the test%2C then he may well not have given DJ back to the group. So his original intent was not specifically to give DJ back%2C but to test the person who was piloting him. %28As a side note%2C I can hardly blame him - if someone was screwing themselves into my back and piloting me into battle%2C I%27d be more than a little concerned about their moral fiber myself%21%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI think that the two experiences were somewhat different. %0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAnd if DJ wasn%27t dead%2C don%27t you think that Rei would tell Asuka%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AAssuming she knew%3F Yes. But I don%27t see any real evidence that she would know%2C although I%27m certain she suspects it. The only character who seems certain that he%27s not dead is Durandal %28with one of my favorite lines from the series%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%28of course%2C there could be a missing scene. Only our esteemed editor %0D%0A%3Ewould know for sure. But given the shamrock house interlude%2C and that %0D%0A%3EDJ%27s come back from the %27dead%27 before...%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C come on. Who really believed that he was dead %5Bb%5Dwithout%5B%2Fb%5D reading the Shamrock House interlude%3F Gryphon put it rather succinctly%2C but it was pretty clear that %22Lucifer%27s Last Stand%22 was anything but.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThe differences%2C however%2C outweight the similiarites. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EIn the first situation%2C Lucifer and DJ unconsciously achive 1%3A1 %0D%0A%3Esynchonization. DJ forces Lucifer into it to save everyone. Lucifer %0D%0A%3Epulls on all that is the eternal solider to do so...and in the process %0D%0A%3Ebecomes fully conscious and almost fully in charge of his powers. DJ%2C %0D%0A%3Eon the other hand%2C loses consciousness and %22forgets%22 who and what he %0D%0A%3Ewas. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EIn the second situation%2C it%27s a conscious decision%2C with DJ %0D%0A%3Eunderstanding who and what Lucifer is... and what he %28DJ%29 may be. %0D%0A%3ELucifer begins to share some truths with DJ%2C that lead them both to %0D%0A%3Eagree to 1%3A1 synchronization as DJ consciously lends his talent to %0D%0A%3Efight%2C while Lucifer provides the power %28AT field%29 and strength. At %0D%0A%3Ethe end they both see the necessity of DJ being absorbed%2C rather than %0D%0A%3Ecaptured. To play dumb%2C and pretend that Lucifer is not awake. %0D%0A%0D%0ASlight disagreement here. Both times are fully concious choices by DJ - the difference is awareness of what it entails. The first time%2C he says in no uncertain terms to Lucifer%2C %22I don%27t care what you have to do in order to win this fight%2C I just want you to do it.%22 Lucifer has still not recovered a whole lot of himself%2C and clumsily does just that - absorbs DJ%2C gets a kick in the pants from absorbing the Eternal Soldier%2C generates colliders%2C and goes on to kick the Angel%27s tail. The second time%2C he knows what the process entails%2C and Lucifer is aware enough %28probably due in part to absorbing DJ the first time%29 to execute the plan more gracefully. Both situations are by and large the same%2C with the primary difference being that in the second situations%2C Lucifer is more aware and DJ is more concious of his decision. Note that in both cases%2C Lucifer fights in much the same fashion%2C with a level of skill that neither DJ nor Lucifer alone can reach - it%27s simply that the process isn%27t new and forced the second time around.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ENotice that DJ doesn%27t lose consciousness in the second situation. He %0D%0A%3Eembraces it as necessary. And he accepts that he%27s Longinus...with all %0D%0A%3Ethat his destiny entails. That%2C I think%2C makes this so much more than %0D%0A%3Ethe first experience. He and Lucifer are planning something%2C %0D%0A%3Esomething that made Lucifer absorb all of DJ - clothes and body. DJ%27s %0D%0A%3Ecorporal form is likely to be %22hidden%22 some where in Lucifer%2C while %0D%0A%3Ehis soul communes with the not-so-fallen angel. %0D%0A%0D%0AExcept that%27s what happened the first time%2C only much less gracefully. Lucifer absorbed %5Bb%5Dmost%5B%2Fb%5D of DJ in the first instance%2C %22held on%22 to his corporal form %28although the actual form was dissolved%2C he was able to recreate it%29%2C and communed with DJ through the form of an elaborate test. They sort of jumped into it without knowing everything that it entailed. DJ %22embraced%22 everything the first time around%2C he just didn%27t know what it was he was embracing.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ll probably catch flame for this%2C but it%27s rather like having sex. The first time%2C you go through with it%2C but you%27re certainly not very graceful about it%2C and there%27s a bit of undesired pain and adjusting. But each time subsequently%2C you%27ve got a better knowledge of what%27s going on%2C and both parties involved have an easier time going through with it. %28I realize I%27m being vague here%2C but the alternative is a bit worse.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ETotally rampant speculation%3A DJ%2C when he returns%2C will not be the same %0D%0A%3Eperson. Like Rei and John%2C he will be transformed. I think the %0D%0A%3Ehesitant%2C hopeful DJ of Shamrock house demonstrates this. %0D%0A%0D%0ANot %22transformed%22%2C more %22reawakened%22. The same sort of transformation that happens when you find true love%2C when you discover the truth about your family - not a change per se%2C more an acceptance and a serenity that comes with security about yourself.%0D%0A-Eliot %22Speaking from experience in the last paragraph%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 19|5|14|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|trigger||16:22:01|06/25/2001|%3ENo%2C but his words imply that had DJ %22failed%22 the test%2C then he may %0D%0A%3Ewell not have given DJ back to the group. So his original intent was %0D%0A%3Enot specifically to give DJ back%2C but to test the person who was %0D%0A%3Epiloting him. %28As a side note%2C I can hardly blame him - if someone %0D%0A%3Ewas screwing themselves into my back and piloting me into battle%2C I%27d %0D%0A%3Ebe more than a little concerned about their moral fiber myself%21%29 %0D%0A%0D%0ANo diasgreement there...I think I forgot Lucifer%27s past. %0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAssuming she knew%3F Yes. But I don%27t see any real evidence that she %0D%0A%3Ewould know%2C although I%27m certain she suspects it. %0D%0A%0D%0AGranted...but I still think that she knows something drastic happened...enough so that DJ is part of Lucifer%27s celestial song.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EWell%2C come on. Who really believed that he was dead %5Bb%5Dwithout%5B%2Fb%5D %0D%0A%3Ereading the Shamrock House interlude%3F Gryphon put it rather %0D%0A%3Esuccinctly%2C but it was pretty clear that %22Lucifer%27s Last Stand%22 was %0D%0A%3Eanything but. %0D%0A%0D%0AI did. But I think the rules on death are a little different for NXE and took that into account. I almost cried%2C but that was because the writing for DJ and Asuka hit me in the right spots.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ESlight disagreement here. Both times are fully concious choices by DJ %0D%0A%3E- the difference is awareness of what it entails. The first time%2C he %0D%0A%3Esays in no uncertain terms to Lucifer%2C %22I don%27t care what you have to %0D%0A%3Edo in order to win this fight%2C I just want you to do it.%22 Lucifer has %0D%0A%3Estill not recovered a whole lot of himself%2C and clumsily does just %0D%0A%3Ethat - absorbs DJ%2C gets a kick in the pants from absorbing the Eternal %0D%0A%3ESoldier%2C generates colliders%2C and goes on to kick the Angel%27s tail. %0D%0A%0D%0AHmm%2C that%27s kinda like saying %22Save me%21%22 and being baptised%2C rather than pulled from the burning stake. His expectation was off. Not so the second time.%0D%0A%0D%0AI think DJ was willing to accept his death to save his friends and avenge Asuka. I don%27t he understood or had any inkling of what Lucifer would do to achive that. Thus%2C not a totally conscious decision. He had no idea what the consequences would be...but I rather think he expected to die.%0D%0A %0D%0A%3EThe second time%2C he knows what the process entails%2C and Lucifer is %0D%0A%3Eaware enough %28probably due in part to absorbing DJ the first time%29 to %0D%0A%3Eexecute the plan more gracefully. Both situations are by and large %0D%0A%3Ethe same%2C with the primary difference being that in the second %0D%0A%3Esituations%2C Lucifer is more aware and DJ is more concious of his %0D%0A%3Edecision. Note that in both cases%2C Lucifer fights in much the same %0D%0A%3Efashion%2C with a level of skill that neither DJ nor Lucifer alone can %0D%0A%3Ereach - it%27s simply that the process isn%27t new and forced the second %0D%0A%3Etime around. %0D%0A%0D%0AUm disagreement on two points. I don%27t think the first time is a plan%2C more like a desparate scramble to solve the crisis. Second%2C I thought the fighting styles were different. Afterall%2C no one had their core ripped out%2C and Lucifer didn%27t break his armor. DJ stays conscious the _entire_ time instead of having one last message before Lucifer goes beserk. When Lucifer howls%2C he and DJ both howl--a particular message that all the Children can hear. Not just a howl filled with blood-lust.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EExcept that%27s what happened the first time%2C only much less gracefully. %0D%0A%3E Lucifer absorbed %5Bb%5Dmost%5B%2Fb%5D of DJ in the first instance%2C %22held on%22 %0D%0A%3Eto his corporal form %28although the actual form was dissolved%2C he was %0D%0A%3Eable to recreate it%29%2C and communed with DJ through the form of an %0D%0A%3Eelaborate test. %0D%0A%0D%0AI think he absorbed DJ%27s soul and rejected the body. He then tested the soul. I think he could have communed with DJ anyway he liked.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThey sort of jumped into it without knowing %0D%0A%3Eeverything that it entailed. DJ %22embraced%22 everything the first time %0D%0A%3Earound%2C he just didn%27t know what it was he was embracing. %0D%0A%0D%0ANo disagreement.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI%27ll probably catch flame for this%2C but it%27s rather like having sex.%0D%0A%0D%0AI love the description %3Cgrin%3E. Mad fumble in the back of the car without a roadmap vs. a lovely meal. %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ENot %22transformed%22%2C more %22reawakened%22. The same sort of transformation %0D%0A%3Ethat happens when you find true love%2C when you discover the truth %0D%0A%3Eabout your family - not a change per se%2C more an acceptance and a %0D%0A%3Eserenity that comes with security about yourself. %0D%0A%0D%0AI love this one too. And I think you%27re right.%0D%0A%0D%0Ait%27s been fun%2C %0D%0At.%0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A 20|6|19|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|truss||16:25:49|06/25/2001|%3E%3EI%27ll probably catch flame for this%2C but it%27s rather like having sex.%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI love the description %3Cgrin%3E. Mad fumble in the back of the car %0D%0A%3Ewithout a roadmap vs. a lovely meal. %0D%0A%0D%0A%22I thought he meant... you know... %5Bb%5Dcoffee%5B%2Fb%5D.%22%0D%0A%0D%0A--truss%2C%0D%0A%5Bi%5DDon%27t mind me%2C I%27m just breaking a couple of my fellow authors...%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A 39|7|20|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Mephron||10:57:31|06/26/2001|Dear Truss%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AYou Bastard.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3CSHATTER%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A%28I don%27t even get the JOKE%2C but it%27s still so non-sequitur it%27s making me almost completely lose it here at work.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--%0D%0AGeoff Depew - Mephron%0D%0A%22Big O%21 Showtime%21%22 40|7|20|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Offsides||14:05:43|06/26/2001|Damn you%21%0D%0A%0D%0ANot only do I not get the joke%2C but it didn%27t even hit me until after about 30 seconds. Truss%2C you owe me %241.98%281%29 %28you broke it%2C you bought it %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0AOffsides%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%281%29 I can%27t remember the name of the story%2C but it involves a small genie granting a wish of %3C %242.00...%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A%23include %3Cshatter.h%3E 69|7|20|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|juniper||18:19:37|06/30/2001|%3E%22I thought he meant... you know... %5Bb%5Dcoffee%5B%2Fb%5D.%22 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E--truss%2C %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5DDon%27t mind me%2C I%27m just breaking a couple of my fellow %0D%0A%3Eauthors...%5B%2Fi%5D %0D%0A%0D%0AFor those of you who don%27t get the reference but are interested in getting it in the future%2C check out http%3A%2F%2Fwww.otmfan.com%2Fssclub%2Fhtml%2Fsslyrics.htm%2C specifically the lyrics for %22Rishartha%2C or Prime Directive Shmime Directive.%22 And if you like the lyrics%2C buy the CD. %3A%29 Support the independant artist...%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Juniper%0D%0A----------------------------------------%0D%0A%22Fac me cocleario vomere%21%22 %0D%0A-- Onatah%2C on NE%3ACiF MUSH 70|8|69|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|truss||12:57:22|07/02/2001|%3EFor those of you who don%27t get the reference but are interested in %0D%0A%3Egetting it in the future%2C check out %0D%0A%3Ehttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.otmfan.com%2Fssclub%2Fhtml%2Fsslyrics.htm%0D%0A%0D%0ADon%27t put commas after URLs%2C or DCF will interpret them as part of it. %3AP%0D%0A%0D%0A%3Especifically the %0D%0A%3Elyrics for %22Rishartha%2C or Prime Directive Shmime Directive.%22%0D%0A%0D%0A...which are%2C sadly%2C %5Bb%5Dwrong%5B%2Fb%5D. The bit I quoted was from the third %22chorus%22 -- but the lyrics on that page don%27t match what they actually sing %28and%2C frankly%2C are notably lamer than what they actually sing%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A--truss.%0D%0A 72|9|70|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|megazone||15:17:23|07/02/2001|%3EDon%27t put commas after URLs%2C or DCF will interpret them as part of it. %0D%0A%3E%3AP %0D%0A%0D%0AWhich is a fix I did that made it into the official build. There are too many URLs with commas in them %28lots of magazines do that%2C etc%29 so it was considered a bug that DCF didn%27t handle them. The URL linking code in DCF today is mostly my doing.%0D%0A%0D%0A-MegaZone%2C megazone%40megazone.org%0D%0APersonal Homepage http%3A%2F%2Fwww.megazone.org%2F%0D%0AEyrie Productions FanFic http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A%5Blink%3Acgi6.ebay.com%2Faw-cgi%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FMfcISAPICommand%3DViewListedItems%26userid%3Dmegazone%2540megazone.org%26include%3D0%26since%3D-1%26sort%3D2%26rows%3D0%7CSee what I%27m selling on eBay%5D 71|8|69|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||14:02:24|07/02/2001|%3EAnd if %0D%0A%3Eyou like the lyrics%2C buy the CD. %3A%29 Support the independant artist... %0D%0A%0D%0A... get %22Theme from %27Super Skrull%27%22 stuck in your head... %0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0Awho can turn one leg invisible%2C but that%27s really not all that practical%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 74|9|71|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Peter Eng||16:14:32|07/02/2001|%3E%0D%0A%3E--G. %0D%0A%3Ewho can turn one leg invisible%2C but that%27s really not all that %0D%0A%3Epractical %0D%0A%3E-%3E%3C- %0D%0A%3EBenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin %0D%0A%3EEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F %0D%0A%0D%0A%22Jack the Tripper%2C who can turn one leg invisible%2C and uses this ability to cause fleeing criminals to stumble and fall...%22%0D%0A%0D%0APeter Eng 22|6|19|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||16:40:37|06/25/2001|%3EGranted...but I still think that she knows something drastic %0D%0A%3Ehappened...enough so that DJ is part of Lucifer%27s celestial song. %0D%0A%0D%0AStill%2C %22drastic%22 could mean a lot of different things - it could mean that he was dead%2C it could mean that he had been absorbed%2C it could mean that Lucifer had gone insane. %3B%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI think DJ was willing to accept his death to save his friends and %0D%0A%3Eavenge Asuka. I don%27t he understood or had any inkling of what Lucifer %0D%0A%3Ewould do to achive that. Thus%2C not a totally conscious decision. He %0D%0A%3Ehad no idea what the consequences would be...but I rather think he %0D%0A%3Eexpected to die. %0D%0A%0D%0ABut he conciously accepted those consequences. He was willing to do whatever in order to win%2C and he said that to Lucifer... so Lucifer called him on it. Even if you don%27t know exactly what the consequence will be%2C you make a choice to accept them or not. The problem is that it%27s a lot more daunting when you don%27t know exactly what%27s coming around the bend.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EUm disagreement on two points. I don%27t think the first time is a %0D%0A%3Eplan%2C more like a desparate scramble to solve the crisis.%0D%0A%0D%0AThat %5Bb%5Dis%5B%2Fb%5D a plan%2C just not a very complicated one. %22Solve the crisis%22 is as much a plan as %22Double back to the weapons store and use handcannons%22%2C it just leaves more options.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ESecond%2C I thought the fighting styles were different. Afterall%2C no one had %0D%0A%3Etheir core ripped out%2C and Lucifer didn%27t break his armor. DJ stays %0D%0A%3Econscious the _entire_ time instead of having one last message before %0D%0A%3ELucifer goes beserk. When Lucifer howls%2C he and DJ both howl--a %0D%0A%3Eparticular message that all the Children can hear. Not just a howl %0D%0A%3Efilled with blood-lust. %0D%0A%0D%0ALike I said - it was a work in process. Lucifer still fought with vicious assurance. But there was less sanity and control in him%2C less awareness of himself%2C and the fact that he was not at all clear on the power of the Eternal Soldier. He got a hard kick in the seat of his pants and lurched forward%2C in the process going a little nuts because he wasn%27t ready for it. But the second time%2C he was ready to go.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI love the description %3Cgrin%3E. Mad fumble in the back of the car %0D%0A%3Ewithout a roadmap vs. a lovely meal. %0D%0A%0D%0A. . .%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m not even going to say what the ending part makes me think of%2C because I%27m certain that I%27d catch flame for it%2C and frankly I%27d deserve it. %3B%3E%0D%0A-Eliot %22Rushing to get done with work in time%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 23|7|22|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|truss||16:45:46|06/25/2001|%3E%3EUm disagreement on two points. I don%27t think the first time is a %0D%0A%3E%3Eplan%2C more like a desparate scramble to solve the crisis.%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThat %5Bb%5Dis%5B%2Fb%5D a plan%2C just not a very complicated one. %22Solve the %0D%0A%3Ecrisis%22 is as much a plan as %22Double back to the weapons store and use %0D%0A%3Ehandcannons%22%2C it just leaves more options. %0D%0A%0D%0AOh%2C it was a plan%2C all right. DJ was planning to die.%0D%0A%0D%0AI am reminded of a quote from Babylon 5%2C Season 1...%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bblockquote%5D%5Bi%5D%0D%0A%22I know a lot of guys who came out of the war changed. Some came out better%2C some came out worse. A lot of them have this problem%3A the war gave them definition%2C direction%2C purpose. Without it they don%27t know how to fit in anymore%2C so they keep looking for ways to go out in a blaze of glory. Some people call it being a hero%2C maybe so. I don%27t know. I%27ve never been one. Me%2C I think they%27re looking for something worth dying for because it%27s easier than finding something worth living for.%22 -- Garibaldi to Sinclair%2C %22Infection%22%0D%0A%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Fblockquote%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A...that just about sums up DJ%27s attitude at the end of Season Two.%0D%0A%0D%0A--truss.%0D%0A 25|8|23|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|trigger||16:52:10|06/25/2001|%0D%0A%3E%5Bblockquote%5D%5Bi%5D %0D%0A%3E%22I know a lot of guys who came out of the war changed. Some came out %0D%0A%3Ebetter%2C some came out worse. A lot of them have this problem%3A the %0D%0A%3Ewar gave them definition%2C direction%2C purpose. Without it they don%27t %0D%0A%3Eknow how to fit in anymore%2C so they keep looking for ways to go out in %0D%0A%3Ea blaze of glory. Some people call it being a hero%2C maybe so. I don%27t %0D%0A%3Eknow. I%27ve never been one. Me%2C I think they%27re looking for something %0D%0A%3Eworth dying for because it%27s easier than finding something worth %0D%0A%3Eliving for.%22 -- Garibaldi to Sinclair%2C %22Infection%22 %0D%0A%3E%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Fblockquote%5D %0D%0A%0D%0AFabulous quote. Now I need to see every episode again...%0D%0A%0D%0ASecond%2C I forgot how bad things were at that point. From DJ%27s perspective it%27s as bad as it gets. %0D%0A%0D%0At.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A 46|9|25|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Chris Redfield||17:02:55|06/26/2001|%3EFabulous quote. Now I need to see every episode again... %0D%0A%0D%0AYou could probably skip TKO... and all of season 5%0D%0A%0D%0A--------------------------------------%0D%0AWhoa%21 What IS it%3F%21 47|10|46|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|megazone||17:38:33|06/26/2001|%3E%3EFabulous quote. Now I need to see every episode again... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYou could probably skip TKO... and all of season 5 %0D%0A%0D%0AI %2Alike%2A a lot of Season 5.%0D%0A%0D%0A-MegaZone%2C megazone%40megazone.org%0D%0APersonal Homepage http%3A%2F%2Fwww.megazone.org%2F%0D%0AEyrie Productions FanFic http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A%5Blink%3Acgi6.ebay.com%2Faw-cgi%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FMfcISAPICommand%3DViewListedItems%26userid%3Dmegazone%2540megazone.org%26include%3D0%26since%3D-1%26sort%3D2%26rows%3D0%7CSee what I%27m selling on eBay%5D 50|11|47|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Chris Redfield||21:43:31|06/26/2001|%3E%3E%3EFabulous quote. Now I need to see every episode again... %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EYou could probably skip TKO... and all of season 5 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI %2Alike%2A a lot of Season 5. %0D%0A%0D%0AFor me%2C season 5 lacked alot of the flair the rest of the series had. I think too much of what was supposed to be season 5 content was pushed into season 4 as they didn%27t know if there would be a season 5. Curse broadcast television.%0D%0A%0D%0A--------------------------------------%0D%0AWhoa%21 What IS it%3F%21 51|12|50|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||21:50:30|06/26/2001|%3E%3E%3E%3EFabulous quote. Now I need to see every episode again... %0D%0A%3E%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3E%3EYou could probably skip TKO... and all of season 5 %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EI %2Alike%2A a lot of Season 5. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EFor me%2C season 5 lacked alot of the flair the rest of the series had. %0D%0A%3EI think too much of what was supposed to be season 5 content was %0D%0A%3Epushed into season 4 as they didn%27t know if there would be a season 5. %0D%0A%3E Curse broadcast television. %0D%0A%0D%0ATopic police. Take it to e-p.com%2FGeneral. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G. %0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 53|11|47|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|truss||10:16:56|06/27/2001|%3E%3E%3EFabulous quote. Now I need to see every episode again... %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EYou could probably skip TKO... and all of season 5 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI %2Alike%2A a lot of Season 5. %0D%0A%0D%0AAs do I. And I like TKO %28though mostly for the B plot%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A--truss.%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22I%2C I%2C I... don%27t wanna write the B PLOT%21%22%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A 33|8|23|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||08:13:50|06/26/2001|%3EOh%2C it was a plan%2C all right. DJ was planning to die. %0D%0A%0D%0AThat was never the feeling that I took away from DJ at that point%2C but looking back in retrospect%2C I can definitely see it - the desparation at what seems to be the end of your world%2C the sensation that dying certainly wouldn%27t make you miss anything%2C the willingness to bring yourself into a deadly situation without intention of emerging. I%27d hardly call DJ suicidal%2C but having been at a point like that in my own life before%2C I can identify.%0D%0A-Eliot %22Now I almost feel bad about not liking %5Bi%5DBabylon 5%5B%2Fi%5D%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 43|9|33|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Laudre||16:23:18|06/26/2001|%3E%22Now I almost feel bad about not liking %5Bi%5DBabylon 5%5B%2Fi%5D%22 %0D%0A%0D%0AEverything I%27ve heard about Babylon 5 had made me think that I%27d really%2C really like it%2C especially given how complex it gets in later seasons. But I didn%27t watch it when it first came out because the commercials and whatnot gave me the impression of a poor man%27s DS9 %28which%2C at the time%2C I didn%27t like... I didn%27t get into DS9 until much%2C much later%2C during the last two-three seasons of its run%29. Since then%2C I%27ve tried to get into B5%2C but every time I sit down to watcha first-season episode%2C I suddenly find myself bored beyond belief by the sheer lack of energy from whatsisname that played the captain of the station in the first season. I swear%2C every time he comes on screen%2C he%27s like a black hole of emotional charge%3B all energy just drains out of the scene%2C making it harder and harder for me to keep focused on it%2C no matter how interesting the rest of the episode is. And I know that I need to watch the show pretty much in order%2C so I%27m stuck waiting until such time as the show starts coming out on DVD.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean --%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebrokenlink.org%5D %5Bb%5DThe Broken Link 4.0 is live%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%22Imagination is more important than knowledge.%22 -- Albert Einstein%0D%0A%22It%27s not easy being green.%22 -- Kermit the Frog 44|10|43|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||16:48:35|06/26/2001|%3EEverything I%27ve heard about Babylon 5 had made me think that I%27d %0D%0A%3Ereally%2C really like it%2C especially given how complex it gets in later %0D%0A%3Eseasons. But I didn%27t watch it when it first came out because the %0D%0A%3Ecommercials and whatnot gave me the impression of a poor man%27s DS9 %0D%0A%3E%28which%2C at the time%2C I didn%27t like... I didn%27t get into DS9 until %0D%0A%3Emuch%2C much later%2C during the last two-three seasons of its run%29. %0D%0A%3ESince then%2C I%27ve tried to get into B5%2C but every time I sit down to %0D%0A%3Ewatcha first-season episode%2C I suddenly find myself bored beyond %0D%0A%3Ebelief by the sheer lack of energy from whatsisname that played the %0D%0A%3Ecaptain of the station in the first season. I swear%2C every time he %0D%0A%3Ecomes on screen%2C he%27s like a black hole of emotional charge%3B all %0D%0A%3Eenergy just drains out of the scene%2C making it harder and harder for %0D%0A%3Eme to keep focused on it%2C no matter how interesting the rest of the %0D%0A%3Eepisode is. And I know that I need to watch the show pretty much in %0D%0A%3Eorder%2C so I%27m stuck waiting until such time as the show starts coming %0D%0A%3Eout on DVD. %0D%0A%0D%0AMy story is slightly different%3A I liked DS9 from the get-go%2C and while I got much the same impression of B5 from initial exposure %28%22It%27s like %5Bi%5DDeep Space Nine%5B%2Fi%5D without Starfleet and Klingons%22%29%2C I was willing to give it a shot. However%2C something about the first few episodes just utterly failed to capture my attention%2C and I wrote it off as being a vaguely interesting idea that would soon join the ranks of promising series that died %28you know%2C like %5Bi%5DSliders%5B%2Fi%5D%29. So I turned a blind eye to it for several years%2C and it was only about a year ago that I really started noticing that it had some real fan following. By that point%2C though%2C I%27d missed most of the beginning and couldn%27t get in in the middle%2C so I%27m stuck. The few times I%27ve watched it subsequently%2C though%2C I%27ve been so lost that I can%27t possibly think of good things about it.%0D%0A-Eliot %22Time to play %27Rush Madly For The Bus%27%21%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 45|11|44|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Laudre||16:59:54|06/26/2001|%3Ebeing a vaguely interesting idea that would soon join the ranks of %0D%0A%3Epromising series that died %28you know%2C like %5Bi%5DSliders%5B%2Fi%5D%29. So I %0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5DSliders%5B%2Fi%5D. Wow. What a show that could have been. John Rhys-Davies kept it watchable for the entire time he was on it%2C and occasionally actively interesting %28frequently enough that I watched the show on a semi-regular basis%29. Then he left%2C and the writers started smoking stuff even more toxic than what they%27d been smoking before%2C and then it moved to the SFC%2C and became even more of a Jerry O%27Connell wankfest...%0D%0A%0D%0AUgh.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean --%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebrokenlink.org%5D %5Bb%5DThe Broken Link 4.0 is live%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%22Imagination is more important than knowledge.%22 -- Albert Einstein%0D%0A%22It%27s not easy being green.%22 -- Kermit the Frog 42|8|23|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Peter Eng||15:47:31|06/26/2001|%3E%3E%3EUm disagreement on two points. I don%27t think the first time is a %0D%0A%3E%3E%3Eplan%2C more like a desparate scramble to solve the crisis.%0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EThat %5Bb%5Dis%5B%2Fb%5D a plan%2C just not a very complicated one. %22Solve the %0D%0A%3E%3Ecrisis%22 is as much a plan as %22Double back to the weapons store and use %0D%0A%3E%3Ehandcannons%22%2C it just leaves more options. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EOh%2C it was a plan%2C all right. DJ was planning to die. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI am reminded of a quote from Babylon 5%2C Season 1... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0ABetter that than the Walter Slovotsky %28mis%29quote%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%22In case everything goes completely wrong%2C I have a backup plan%3A I will die slowly%2C at great length%2C and in great pain. Admitted%2C it%27s not a %5Bb%5Dgood%5B%2Fb%5D backup plan...%22%0D%0A%0D%0AThat isn%27t exactly it%2C but the flavor is there.%0D%0A%0D%0APeter Eng 48|9|42|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|drakensisthered||18:17:05|06/26/2001|%0D%0A%3EBetter that than the Walter Slovotsky %28mis%29quote%3A %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%22In case everything goes completely wrong%2C I have a backup plan%3A I %0D%0A%3Ewill die slowly%2C at great length%2C and in great pain. Admitted%2C it%27s %0D%0A%3Enot a %5Bb%5Dgood%5B%2Fb%5D backup plan...%22 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AOh MAN%21 Now I%27m gonna haveta drag out those books and read all five again. Walter %27I%27m just a slave to my hormones%27 Slovotsky is just cool. Who else could make three months of solid boozing into something heroic%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0Adrakensisthered%0D%0A%0D%0ASo I simply said one of the great trite truths%3A %22There is generally more than one side to a story.%22 - Corwin%2C Roger Zelazny%27s %27Courts of Chaos%27 60|10|48|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Mephron||16:13:54|06/27/2001|There%27s more than 5. Lessee%3A%0D%0A%0D%0ASleeping Dragon%0D%0ASword and the Chain%0D%0ASilver Crown%0D%0AHeir Apparent%0D%0AWarrior Lives%0D%0AThe Road Home%0D%0AThe Road to Ehvenor%0D%0A%0D%0AThen%0D%0ANot Quite the Three Musketeers%0D%0ANot Quite Scaramouche%0D%0A%0D%0AGeoff Depew - Mephron%0D%0A%22That%27s right. Derek had Literacy.%22 61|11|60|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||16:17:06|06/27/2001|%3E%22That%27s right. Derek had Literacy.%22 %0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C no%2C Andrew had Literacy. Derek just broke because of it.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 101|5|14|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Khirsah||18:02:36|07/06/2001|%3EI was referring to Moloch%27s Last Stand against EVA-06%2C when most of %0D%0A%3EMoloch%27s power was coming from Reilael. Rei-P%2FT was a special case%2C %0D%0A%3Eprobably not aware of her celestial heritage. %0D%0A%0D%0ALikely not - after all%2C there%27s a mention of both Lucifer and Rei-P%2FT being confused when the truth of that one comes to light in the very last episode.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ENo%2C but his words imply that had DJ %22failed%22 the test%2C then he may %0D%0A%3Ewell not have given DJ back to the group. So his original intent was %0D%0A%3Enot specifically to give DJ back%2C but to test the person who was %0D%0A%3Epiloting him. %28As a side note%2C I can hardly blame him - if someone %0D%0A%3Ewas screwing themselves into my back and piloting me into battle%2C I%27d %0D%0A%3Ebe more than a little concerned about their moral fiber myself%21%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AReally%3F I got the impression that Lucifer was satisfied with the result of the vision quest of DJ%27s - and that yes%2C it was a test of DJ%27s courage and inner strength. How would he react%2C %5Bi%5Dknowing%5B%2Fi%5D he was doomed%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%3EAnd if DJ wasn%27t dead%2C don%27t you think that Rei would tell Asuka%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAssuming she knew%3F Yes. But I don%27t see any real evidence that she %0D%0A%3Ewould know%2C although I%27m certain she suspects it. The only character %0D%0A%3Ewho seems certain that he%27s not dead is Durandal %28with one of my %0D%0A%3Efavorite lines from the series%29. %0D%0A%0D%0AShe%27s a Cherub - and if she%27s attuned herself to DJ %28which is more than 99%25 likely to be the case with her and %2Fall%2F the Children%29%2C she %5Bi%5Dwill%5B%2Fi%5D know if he%27s dead%2C because her attunement would be broken.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EWell%2C come on. Who really believed that he was dead %5Bb%5Dwithout%5B%2Fb%5D %0D%0A%3Ereading the Shamrock House interlude%3F Gryphon put it rather %0D%0A%3Esuccinctly%2C but it was pretty clear that %22Lucifer%27s Last Stand%22 was %0D%0A%3Eanything but. %0D%0A%0D%0AIndeed. DJ is the Main Hero. Without him%2C there wouldn%27t really %5Bi%5Dbe%5B%2Fi%5D a %27wrap-it-all-up%27 movie%2C because without him%2C NERV loses the mightiest power it can hope to use%2C and they%27re already fighting at a handicap.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ESlight disagreement here. Both times are fully concious choices by DJ %0D%0A%3E- the difference is awareness of what it entails. The first time%2C he %0D%0A%3Esays in no uncertain terms to Lucifer%2C %22I don%27t care what you have to %0D%0A%3Edo in order to win this fight%2C I just want you to do it.%22 Lucifer has %0D%0A%3Estill not recovered a whole lot of himself%2C and clumsily does just %0D%0A%3Ethat - absorbs DJ%2C gets a kick in the pants from absorbing the Eternal %0D%0A%3ESoldier%2C generates colliders%2C and goes on to kick the Angel%27s tail. %0D%0A%3EThe second time%2C he knows what the process entails%2C and Lucifer is %0D%0A%3Eaware enough %28probably due in part to absorbing DJ the first time%29 to %0D%0A%3Eexecute the plan more gracefully. Both situations are by and large %0D%0A%3Ethe same%2C with the primary difference being that in the second %0D%0A%3Esituations%2C Lucifer is more aware and DJ is more concious of his %0D%0A%3Edecision. Note that in both cases%2C Lucifer fights in much the same %0D%0A%3Efashion%2C with a level of skill that neither DJ nor Lucifer alone can %0D%0A%3Ereach - it%27s simply that the process isn%27t new and forced the second %0D%0A%3Etime around. %0D%0A%0D%0AActually%2C one can disagree here - IMO%2C what I think the effect on the fight is that DJ accepted the simple truth that he is the Eternal Soldier%2C and that released the unconscious blocks that seperated DJ Croft from the Eternal Soldier - and the chosen weapon of the Soldier is the spear. It even shows earlier - he has a natural aptitude with the spear. Spears aren%27t exactly easy weapons to use%2C after all.%0D%0A%0D%0AI will agree that the situations are somewhat similar%2C though.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EExcept that%27s what happened the first time%2C only much less gracefully. %0D%0A%3E Lucifer absorbed %5Bb%5Dmost%5B%2Fb%5D of DJ in the first instance%2C %22held on%22 %0D%0A%3Eto his corporal form %28although the actual form was dissolved%2C he was %0D%0A%3Eable to recreate it%29%2C and communed with DJ through the form of an %0D%0A%3Eelaborate test. They sort of jumped into it without knowing %0D%0A%3Eeverything that it entailed. DJ %22embraced%22 everything the first time %0D%0A%3Earound%2C he just didn%27t know what it was he was embracing. %0D%0A%0D%0ARather startled him when it happened%2C though. %5Bi%5D%22My God%21 It%27s full of stars%21%22%5B%2Fi%5D Rather like he was expecting something%2C no idea what%2C and what it turned out to be startled him witless in the last instant.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%3ETotally rampant speculation%3A DJ%2C when he returns%2C will not be the same %0D%0A%3E%3Eperson. Like Rei and John%2C he will be transformed. I think the %0D%0A%3E%3Ehesitant%2C hopeful DJ of Shamrock house demonstrates this. %0D%0A%0D%0AThe DJ of the Encounter was hesitant and hopeful because he was pondering the eventual future%2C and the end of the known timeline. Given the note that the last episode ended on%2C wouldn%27t %5Bi%5Dyou%5B%2Fi%5D act rather similar%2C in his place%3F I know I would...%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ENot %22transformed%22%2C more %22reawakened%22. The same sort of transformation %0D%0A%3Ethat happens when you find true love%2C when you discover the truth %0D%0A%3Eabout your family - not a change per se%2C more an acceptance and a %0D%0A%3Eserenity that comes with security about yourself. %0D%0A%0D%0AThat%2C I can totally agree with. He%27ll likely have accepted the simple truth that he%27s the Eternal Soldier%2C and with that sort of knowledge would come a rather solid self-confidence%2C I%27d think.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E-Eliot %22Speaking from experience in the last paragraph%22 Lefebvre %0D%0A%3E-%3D%28%29%3D- %0D%0A%3EWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most %0D%0A%3Eof it. %0D%0A%3E%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D %0D%0A%3EProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A-Khirsah the Deranged%0D%0AResident Editor-in-Chaos%2C DracoDen Productions%2C UnLtd.%0D%0AThis post was created using Opera 5.0%0D%0AAnd%0D%0ACorwin the Dyslexic Computer 110|6|101|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||08:20:22|07/10/2001|%3EShe%27s a Cherub - and if she%27s attuned herself to DJ %28which is more %0D%0A%3Ethan 99%25 likely to be the case with her and %2Fall%2F the Children%29%2C she %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5Dwill%5B%2Fi%5D know if he%27s dead%2C because her attunement would be broken. %0D%0A%0D%0ABut she%27s also gone through some seriously mind-bending crap since then%2C and it may well be that she didn%27t even conciously know she %5Bb%5Dwas%5B%2Fb%5D attuned to DJ when she first staked a claim. It%27s entirely possible that she%27d feel something but not know exactly what. Remember%2C she%27s still a very broken angel - she%27s recovered a lot of herself%2C but not nearly all.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EIndeed. DJ is the Main Hero. Without him%2C there wouldn%27t really %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5Dbe%5B%2Fi%5D a %27wrap-it-all-up%27 movie%2C because without him%2C NERV loses %0D%0A%3Ethe mightiest power it can hope to use%2C and they%27re already fighting %0D%0A%3Eat a handicap. %0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C that and it would so totally blow any hopes of %5Bi%5DNXE%5B%2Fi%5D being the antithesis to the original out of the water by killing the hero totally arbitrarily. Don%27t get me wrong - in one of my own fictional universes%2C I%27ve planned a totally senseless death towards the end - but that%27s also a universe that%27s SUPPOSED to have senseless deaths.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EActually%2C one can disagree here - IMO%2C what I think the effect on the %0D%0A%3Efight is that DJ accepted the simple truth that he is the Eternal %0D%0A%3ESoldier%2C and that released the unconscious blocks that seperated DJ %0D%0A%3ECroft from the Eternal Soldier - and the chosen weapon of the Soldier %0D%0A%3Eis the spear. It even shows earlier - he has a natural aptitude with %0D%0A%3Ethe spear. Spears aren%27t exactly easy weapons to use%2C after all. %0D%0A%0D%0ANo%3F %22It%27s a pointed stick%2C dammit%21 POKE the beastie%21%22%0D%0A%0D%0ASorry. Offhanded reference. Spears are difficult to use in a truly effective sense%2C and DJ pops into total overdrive with his spear at the end. It%27s certainly a nice change from the %22well%2C he%27s got to use a sword%2C he%27s the hero%22 syndrome of nearly every series involving close-combat weapons.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28As an interesting side note - does anyone else find it odd that%2C throughout %5Bcite%5DVagrant Story%5B%2Fcite%5D%2C Ashley is constantly swinging spears at the enemy but never actually thrusting the damn things%3F Small wonder the Rapier is so useless%2C since it%27s meant to be thrusted and not swung...%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ERather startled him when it happened%2C though. %5Bi%5D%22My God%21 It%27s full of %0D%0A%3Estars%21%22%5B%2Fi%5D Rather like he was expecting something%2C no idea what%2C and %0D%0A%3Ewhat it turned out to be startled him witless in the last instant. %0D%0A%0D%0AI imagine that if I were absorbed by an unspeakably and unfathomably powerful celestial%2C I would be pretty damned startled as well. %3B%3E%0D%0A-Eliot %22Actually have a really scary idea about what Lucifer-DJ might do at some point%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 111|7|110|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Khirsah||12:26:41|07/10/2001|%3EBut she%27s also gone through some seriously mind-bending crap since %0D%0A%3Ethen%2C and it may well be that she didn%27t even conciously know she %0D%0A%3E%5Bb%5Dwas%5B%2Fb%5D attuned to DJ when she first staked a claim. It%27s entirely %0D%0A%3Epossible that she%27d feel something but not know exactly what. %0D%0A%3ERemember%2C she%27s still a very broken angel - she%27s recovered a lot of %0D%0A%3Eherself%2C but not nearly all. %0D%0A%0D%0ATrue%2C true. She%27d know %5Bi%5Dsomething%5B%2Fi%5D was missing%2C but maybe not what. Or it might be that she has a base-instinct effect with it - like knowing what trouble he was in%2C and where to find him%2C after the Dirac%27s Ocean incident...%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EWell%2C that and it would so totally blow any hopes of %5Bi%5DNXE%5B%2Fi%5D being %0D%0A%3Ethe antithesis to the original out of the water by killing the hero %0D%0A%3Etotally arbitrarily. Don%27t get me wrong - in one of my own fictional %0D%0A%3Euniverses%2C I%27ve planned a totally senseless death towards the end - %0D%0A%3Ebut that%27s also a universe that%27s SUPPOSED to have senseless deaths. %0D%0A%0D%0AExactly. %5Bi%5DNXE%5B%2Fi%5D is the Heroic Story kind of tale - senseless deaths don%27t make much sense in that kind of storyline. Then there%27re others where they make plenty of sense. Each has its place%2C but it%27s just freaky to cross them. Not to mention just plain wrong. Which%2C of course%2C is why I%27m glad people like Gryph %28an%2C I would hope%2C you and I%29 exist%2C to use them they way they %5Bi%5Dshould%5B%2Fi%5D be...%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ENo%3F %22It%27s a pointed stick%2C dammit%21 POKE the beastie%21%22 %0D%0A%0D%0A%2Athud%2A Ow. I fell off my chair there - wasn%27t expecting %5Bi%5Dthat%5B%2Fi%5D...%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ESorry. Offhanded reference. Spears are difficult to use in a truly %0D%0A%3Eeffective sense%2C and DJ pops into total overdrive with his spear at %0D%0A%3Ethe end. It%27s certainly a nice change from the %22well%2C he%27s got to use %0D%0A%3Ea sword%2C he%27s the hero%22 syndrome of nearly every series involving %0D%0A%3Eclose-combat weapons. %0D%0A%0D%0AYep. He does well with it at first%2C better than anyone using one for the first time has a right to%2C even with the Prince of Darkness lending a celestial hand%3B and when he goes after them defending the train%2C well... Yeah. Nice touch%2C that battle... %0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%28As an interesting side note - does anyone else find it odd that%2C %0D%0A%3Ethroughout %5Bcite%5DVagrant Story%5B%2Fcite%5D%2C Ashley is constantly swinging %0D%0A%3Espears at the enemy but never actually thrusting the damn things%3F %0D%0A%3ESmall wonder the Rapier is so useless%2C since it%27s meant to be thrusted %0D%0A%3Eand not swung...%29 %0D%0A%0D%0ANever seen it%2C unfortunately. I%27m still working on stealing my friend%27s copy of NGE on VCD so I can sit down and watch the entire bloody thing. That%2C and torture another friend to hurry up and get me the set of BGC 2032 that he promised to get me...%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI imagine that if I were absorbed by an unspeakably and unfathomably %0D%0A%3Epowerful celestial%2C I would be pretty damned startled as well. %3B%3E %0D%0A%0D%0AGee%2C y%27think%3F %3E%3B%29%0D%0AOTOH%2C I know a few people who%27d probably take it as Just Another Fweird Day. Were one to build them in GURPS%2C they%27d have the Unfazeable advantage%2C something like a dozen times. It%27s just fweird to watch them.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E-Eliot %22Actually have a really scary idea about what Lucifer-DJ might %0D%0A%3Edo at some point%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A%0D%0AWhy am I get that %27By the pricking of my thumbs%27 feeling%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E-%3D%28%29%3D- %0D%0A%3EWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most %0D%0A%3Eof it. %0D%0A%3E%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D %0D%0A%3EProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A-Khirsah the Deranged%0D%0A%22Run. Don%27t ask why%2C just run. Now.%22 112|8|111|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||13:28:45|07/10/2001|%3ETrue%2C true. She%27d know %5Bi%5Dsomething%5B%2Fi%5D was missing%2C but maybe not %0D%0A%3Ewhat. Or it might be that she has a base-instinct effect with it - %0D%0A%3Elike knowing what trouble he was in%2C and where to find him%2C after the %0D%0A%3EDirac%27s Ocean incident... %0D%0A%0D%0AI imagine it%27s something along the lines of Jon%27s line about being able to understand the music but not sing it just yet - she%27s slowly recovering an awareness of who she is and what her true capabilities are. It%27s also possible that%2C after everything she%27s been through%2C she%27s pretty much reached the maximum level of her abilities again - she%27s too broke to be entirely fixed%2C in a sense.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EExactly. %5Bi%5DNXE%5B%2Fi%5D is the Heroic Story kind of tale - senseless %0D%0A%3Edeaths don%27t make much sense in that kind of storyline. Then there%27re %0D%0A%3Eothers where they make plenty of sense. Each has its place%2C but it%27s %0D%0A%3Ejust freaky to cross them. Not to mention just plain wrong. Which%2C of %0D%0A%3Ecourse%2C is why I%27m glad people like Gryph %28and%2C I would hope%2C you and %0D%0A%3EI%29 exist%2C to use them they way they %5Bi%5Dshould%5B%2Fi%5D be... %0D%0A%0D%0AI would hope so. I%27ve not gotten to senseless deaths in %5Bcite%5DGenesis%5B%2Fcite%5D yet%2C but I%27ve allowed guns to have a very high lethality rate - they%27re easily the superior of the ki blasts that most of the main characters throw around. %28Heck%2C Stryker got himself nearly killed in the most recent chapter.%29 %5Bcite%5DBattle Helix%5B%2Fcite%5D %5Bb%5Dopens%5B%2Fb%5D with a senseless death%2C and it%27s currently at the most light-hearted end of the series. It all depends on the mood that%27s being set.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%2Athud%2A Ow. I fell off my chair there - wasn%27t expecting %5Bi%5Dthat%5B%2Fi%5D... %0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s a long story to explain. Suffice to say that it%27s a quote that might find more screen time%2C and is filed under my %22use the obvious tool for the obvious job%22 quotes...%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ENever seen it%2C unfortunately. I%27m still working on stealing my %0D%0A%3Efriend%27s copy of NGE on VCD so I can sit down and watch the entire %0D%0A%3Ebloody thing. That%2C and torture another friend to hurry up and get me %0D%0A%3Ethe set of BGC 2032 that he promised to get me... %0D%0A%0D%0ADon%27t wait for it to come out on DVD%2C it%27s a Playstation game. I was just noting how the spear animation always depicts swinging%2C as if he were wielding something with an edge%2C although all spears are Piercing weapons.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EGee%2C y%27think%3F %3E%3B%29 %0D%0A%3EOTOH%2C I know a few people who%27d probably take it as Just Another %0D%0A%3EFweird Day. Were one to build them in GURPS%2C they%27d have the %0D%0A%3EUnfazeable advantage%2C something like a dozen times. It%27s just fweird %0D%0A%3Eto watch them. %0D%0A%0D%0AThere comes a point%2C at least for me%2C where things have gotten so far out of the range of normal that anything further abnormal%2C no matter how bizarre%2C cannot even stagger me. Even if what%27s been abnormal is what%27s been happening with my classes%2C and I step outside to see a Gundam waiting for me. By that point I%27ve just sort of resolved that the universe is not working right for the day%2C and leave it at that.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EWhy am I get that %27By the pricking of my thumbs%27 feeling%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AHere%27s some idea of what I had in mind... part of this comes from the part about %22Lucifer %3Ccan take apart a body%3E by blinking funny%22...%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5DEVA-01 staggered from the blow%2C then found itself on the receving end of another blast from the white SEELE EVA without a moment%27s pause. Asuka gritted her teeth and pushed her machine closer to her teammate%2C but found her path cut off by two more of the machines. She swung an angry prog knife at one%2C but found herself driven back regardless%2C unable to close the distance.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Asuka%21%22 came Misato%27s voice over the comm. %22We%27ve lost visual feed%3B what%27s going on out there%3F%22%0D%0A%0D%0A%22This verdammt machine isn%27t -doing- anything%21%22 replied Asuka in frustration%2C rage%2C and fear%2C driving a knife into the shoulder of one of the enemy EVAs and trying to step around its counterpart. The maneuver was met with a solid blow that sent her reeling%3B turning%2C she found another SEELE machine closing in. %22Misato%2C I need -backup-%21%22%0D%0A%0D%0ADJ%27s comm wasn%27t functional%2C but he could see what was happening and knew what Asuka had to be experiencing as he swung his spear around%2C using it to trip one of the opposing units. His pulse quickened as he saw her machine stagger from another blow%2C then winced as Lucifer was driven into by another EVA. There were simply too many EVAs for the two of them to handle.%0D%0A%0D%0AThen something snapped.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22The -hell- with this%2C%22 came a voice that sounded like a blend of DJ%27s and Lucifer%27s%2C startling Asuka out of her frustrated maneuvering. The spear was hurled and burst through one of the EVA%27s chest armor%2C leaving it to fall forward without a pilot. Lucifer seemed in no hurry to pick up the spear%2C but his eyes glowed with a fierce green light. Asuka watched as Lucifer smashed a fist into a nearby EVA as he fixed another with his gaze%2C then gasped as the unit in front of her began to burn away into ash and smoke. It was a moment before she realized that Lucifer was coming towards her%2C burning away the EVAs in between...%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A-Eliot %22Scary%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 113|9|112|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Khirsah||14:18:14|07/10/2001|%3EI imagine it%27s something along the lines of Jon%27s line about being %0D%0A%3Eable to understand the music but not sing it just yet - she%27s slowly %0D%0A%3Erecovering an awareness of who she is and what her true capabilities %0D%0A%3Eare. It%27s also possible that%2C after everything she%27s been through%2C %0D%0A%3Eshe%27s pretty much reached the maximum level of her abilities again - %0D%0A%3Eshe%27s too broke to be entirely fixed%2C in a sense. %0D%0A%0D%0AMmm. Possible - although Archangel-class beings could probably mend her well enough with a little effort. They seem reasonably omnipotent when it comes to lesser angels...%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI would hope so. I%27ve not gotten to senseless deaths in %0D%0A%3E%5Bcite%5DGenesis%5B%2Fcite%5D yet%2C but I%27ve allowed guns to have a very high %0D%0A%3Elethality rate - they%27re easily the superior of the ki blasts that %0D%0A%3Emost of the main characters throw around. %28Heck%2C Stryker got himself %0D%0A%3Enearly killed in the most recent chapter.%29 %5Bcite%5DBattle Helix%5B%2Fcite%5D %0D%0A%3E%5Bb%5Dopens%5B%2Fb%5D with a senseless death%2C and it%27s currently at the most %0D%0A%3Elight-hearted end of the series. It all depends on the mood that%27s %0D%0A%3Ebeing set. %0D%0A%0D%0ANo arguments there.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EIt%27s a long story to explain. Suffice to say that it%27s a quote that %0D%0A%3Emight find more screen time%2C and is filed under my %22use the obvious %0D%0A%3Etool for the obvious job%22 quotes... %0D%0A%0D%0AMmmm. Blunt humor. I like it.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EDon%27t wait for it to come out on DVD%2C it%27s a Playstation game. I was %0D%0A%3Ejust noting how the spear animation always depicts swinging%2C as if he %0D%0A%3Ewere wielding something with an edge%2C although all spears are Piercing %0D%0A%3Eweapons. %0D%0A%0D%0AI knew it sounded familiar. I may be able to visit the Blockbuster near my friend%27s place next time I go into Vegas%2C then%2C and pick it to peer at it.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThere comes a point%2C at least for me%2C where things have gotten so far %0D%0A%3Eout of the range of normal that anything further abnormal%2C no matter %0D%0A%3Ehow bizarre%2C cannot even stagger me. Even if what%27s been abnormal is %0D%0A%3Ewhat%27s been happening with my classes%2C and I step outside to see a %0D%0A%3EGundam waiting for me. By that point I%27ve just sort of resolved that %0D%0A%3Ethe universe is not working right for the day%2C and leave it at that. %0D%0A%0D%0AThat I understand - the point when the universe is radiating the feeling that it has been calmly pushed about 42 degrees off the usual course%2C and about 23 degrees tilted from the level%2C so that anything more is just overkill and doesn%27t matter.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EHere%27s some idea of what I had in mind... part of this comes from the %0D%0A%3Epart about %22Lucifer %3Ccan take apart a body%3E by blinking funny%22... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5DEVA-01 staggered from the blow%2C then found itself on the receving %0D%0A%3Eend of another blast from the white SEELE EVA without a moment%27s %0D%0A%3Epause. Asuka gritted her teeth and pushed her machine closer to her %0D%0A%3Eteammate%2C but found her path cut off by two more of the machines. She %0D%0A%3Eswung an angry prog knife at one%2C but found herself driven back %0D%0A%3Eregardless%2C unable to close the distance. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%22Asuka%21%22 came Misato%27s voice over the comm. %22We%27ve lost visual feed%3B %0D%0A%3Ewhat%27s going on out there%3F%22 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%22This verdammt machine isn%27t -doing- anything%21%22 replied Asuka in %0D%0A%3Efrustration%2C rage%2C and fear%2C driving a knife into the shoulder of one %0D%0A%3Eof the enemy EVAs and trying to step around its counterpart. The %0D%0A%3Emaneuver was met with a solid blow that sent her reeling%3B turning%2C she %0D%0A%3Efound another SEELE machine closing in. %22Misato%2C I need -backup-%21%22 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EDJ%27s comm wasn%27t functional%2C but he could see what was happening and %0D%0A%3Eknew what Asuka had to be experiencing as he swung his spear around%2C %0D%0A%3Eusing it to trip one of the opposing units. His pulse quickened as he %0D%0A%3Esaw her machine stagger from another blow%2C then winced as Lucifer was %0D%0A%3Edriven into by another EVA. There were simply too many EVAs for the %0D%0A%3Etwo of them to handle. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThen something snapped. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%22The -hell- with this%2C%22 came a voice that sounded like a blend of DJ%27s %0D%0A%3Eand Lucifer%27s%2C startling Asuka out of her frustrated maneuvering. The %0D%0A%3Espear was hurled and burst through one of the EVA%27s chest armor%2C %0D%0A%3Eleaving it to fall forward without a pilot. Lucifer seemed in no %0D%0A%3Ehurry to pick up the spear%2C but his eyes glowed with a fierce green %0D%0A%3Elight. Asuka watched as Lucifer smashed a fist into a nearby EVA as %0D%0A%3Ehe fixed another with his gaze%2C then gasped as the unit in front of %0D%0A%3Eher began to burn away into ash and smoke. It was a moment before she %0D%0A%3Erealized that Lucifer was coming towards her%2C burning away the EVAs in %0D%0A%3Ebetween...%5B%2Fi%5D %0D%0A%0D%0AYow. Now that%27s a cool scene%2C to be sure.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E-Eliot %22Scary%22 Lefebvre %0D%0A%3E-%3D%28%29%3D- %0D%0A%3EWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most %0D%0A%3Eof it. %0D%0A%3E%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D %0D%0A%3EProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A 116|10|113|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|BobSchroeck||08:11:49|07/11/2001|%3E%3E It%27s also possible that%2C after everything she%27s been through%2C %0D%0A%3E%3Eshe%27s pretty much reached the maximum level of her abilities again - %0D%0A%3E%3Eshe%27s too broke to be entirely fixed%2C in a sense. %0D%0A%3EMmm. Possible - although Archangel-class beings could probably mend %0D%0A%3Eher well enough with a little effort. They seem reasonably omnipotent %0D%0A%3Ewhen it comes to lesser angels... %0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C %5Bi%5Dthere%5B%2Fi%5D I can speak definitively. While working on an %5Bi%5DIn Nomine%5B%2Fi%5D project in 1999%2C I specifically asked the Line Editor about this very question. The official answer is that%2C yes%2C while a Superior can graft Forces back onto a Remnant to replace those that were lost%2C the result is almost never the same angel that originally existed. You%27d get more of a Tabriel than a restored Rei in such a case.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bb%5DHowever%2C%5B%2Fb%5D remember that the %5Bi%5DIn Nom%5B%2Fi%5D Remnant rules have been rather explicitly revamped for the purposes of %5Bi%5DNXE%2C%5B%2Fi%5D and this limitation may or may not apply%2C as determined by the authors and the needs of the story.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Bob%0D%0A---------------%0D%0A%22Shinji. Same name as the master key -- well done%2C Ikari. Shinji can%27t be%0D%0Acopied. Splendid plan.%22 -- Tabris%2C in %5Bi%5DTenshi Muyo%21 Rei-o-ohki%5B%2Fi%5D 119|11|116|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|truss||10:14:05|07/11/2001|%3EWell%2C %5Bi%5Dthere%5B%2Fi%5D I can speak definitively. While working on an %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5DIn Nomine%5B%2Fi%5D project in 1999%2C I specifically asked the Line Editor %0D%0A%3Eabout this very question. The official answer is that%2C yes%2C while a %0D%0A%3ESuperior can graft Forces back onto a Remnant to replace those that %0D%0A%3Ewere lost%2C the result is almost never the same angel that originally %0D%0A%3Eexisted. You%27d get more of a Tabriel than a restored Rei in such a %0D%0A%3Ecase. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%5Bb%5DHowever%2C%5B%2Fb%5D remember that the %5Bi%5DIn Nom%5B%2Fi%5D Remnant rules have %0D%0A%3Ebeen rather explicitly revamped for the purposes of %5Bi%5DNXE%2C%5B%2Fi%5D and %0D%0A%3Ethis limitation may or may not apply%2C as determined by the authors and %0D%0A%3Ethe needs of the story. %0D%0A%0D%0AThe way I see it%2C yes%2C an Archangel could have %22rebuilt%22 Rei. And yes%2C the end result would have been something vaguely like Tabriel... an angel with Rei%27s memories %28whatever ones she had at the time%29%2C but certainly not the same angel that she once was.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut... and here%27s where NXE diverges from IN canon... Rei has instead managed to %5Bb%5Dheal%5B%2Fb%5D herself%2C which is different %28and%2C even in the NXE version of INspace%2C remarkable%29. Why%3F Who knows%3F %28Ok%2C maybe Gryph does. %3A%29 Perhaps even as a Remnant%2C her force of will is just that strong. Or maybe her recent actions resonate so strongly with her Cherub nature and her previous attunement to Lucifer and Moloch%2C that she%27s able to use that resonance to reconstruct her old self as she gains awareness of what she used to be.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn any case... since %5Bb%5DRei%5B%2Fb%5D is the one instigating her recovery%2C it gives her some level of control over %22who she grows up to be%22%2C as it were. %28Especially since it happens over such a long duration.%29 Is the recovered Rei %22the same angel%22 that she was before%3F In an absolute sense%2C that%27s a question best left to the philosophers... but in every way that%27s important to Rei herself%2C the answer is yes.%0D%0A%0D%0A--truss.%0D%0A 120|11|116|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Khirsah||10:14:39|07/11/2001|%3EWell%2C %5Bi%5Dthere%5B%2Fi%5D I can speak definitively. While working on an %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5DIn Nomine%5B%2Fi%5D project in 1999%2C I specifically asked the Line Editor %0D%0A%3Eabout this very question. The official answer is that%2C yes%2C while a %0D%0A%3ESuperior can graft Forces back onto a Remnant to replace those that %0D%0A%3Ewere lost%2C the result is almost never the same angel that originally %0D%0A%3Eexisted. You%27d get more of a Tabriel than a restored Rei in such a %0D%0A%3Ecase. %0D%0A%0D%0AMmm. Good point.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%5Bb%5DHowever%2C%5B%2Fb%5D remember that the %5Bi%5DIn Nom%5B%2Fi%5D Remnant rules have %0D%0A%3Ebeen rather explicitly revamped for the purposes of %5Bi%5DNXE%2C%5B%2Fi%5D and %0D%0A%3Ethis limitation may or may not apply%2C as determined by the authors and %0D%0A%3Ethe needs of the story. %0D%0A%0D%0AWhich is%2C of course%2C the lovely effect of any good game system - it can be edited to work the way the people using it want it to%2C rather than being forced to use it %2Aexactly%2A the way it was designed...%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E-- Bob %0D%0A%3E--------------- %0D%0A%3E%22Shinji. Same name as the master key -- well done%2C Ikari. Shinji %0D%0A%3Ecan%27t be %0D%0A%3Ecopied. Splendid plan.%22 -- Tabris%2C in %5Bi%5DTenshi Muyo%21 %0D%0A%3ERei-o-ohki%5B%2Fi%5D %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A-Khirsah the Deranged%0D%0A%22Never let four lunatics armed with caffeine go wandering at 12%3A15 in the morning.%22 121|12|120|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Verbena||08:24:29|07/12/2001|%3E%3EWell%2C %5Bi%5Dthere%5B%2Fi%5D I can speak definitively. While working on an %0D%0A%3E%3E%5Bi%5DIn Nomine%5B%2Fi%5D project in 1999%2C I specifically asked the Line Editor %0D%0A%3E%3Eabout this very question. The official answer is that%2C yes%2C while a %0D%0A%3E%3ESuperior can graft Forces back onto a Remnant to replace those that %0D%0A%3E%3Ewere lost%2C the result is almost never the same angel that originally %0D%0A%3E%3Eexisted. You%27d get more of a Tabriel than a restored Rei in such a %0D%0A%3E%3Ecase. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EMmm. Good point. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%3E%5Bb%5DHowever%2C%5B%2Fb%5D remember that the %5Bi%5DIn Nom%5B%2Fi%5D Remnant rules have %0D%0A%3E%3Ebeen rather explicitly revamped for the purposes of %5Bi%5DNXE%2C%5B%2Fi%5D and %0D%0A%3E%3Ethis limitation may or may not apply%2C as determined by the authors and %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe needs of the story. %0D%0A%0D%0A%2Asnaps fingers%2A%0D%0A%0D%0A I think I found an explanation that both fits within IN canon -and- the requirements of the story.%0D%0A Now%2C this is pure speculation%2C of course%2C but as far as I can tell%2C it%27s not just the number of Forces that determines who is an Archangel or Demon Prince. The designation of God or Lucifer is also required. If that%27s the case%2C what if it%27s more than a designation%3F What if naming a celestial a Superior also inherently grants them specific powers%2C one of which is the direct manipulation of Forces%3F%0D%0A If this is the case%2C then perhaps this power is also inherited when the forces that make up an Superior are transferred in toto to another Celestial.%0D%0A And if -that%27s- the case%2C then Reilael%2C after acquiring whatever Forces Moloch had remaining%2C may have been granted the ability to manipulate Forces directly enough to %27heal%27 herself without submerging her personality. Or%2C Moloch%27s condition may have made her personality 99.9999%25 dominant. Again%2C it%27s a totally unsure thing. But it might fit. Thoughts%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A--%22I invoke the rites of fiery Muspelheim%2C and give thy soul up to the inferno%27s embrace...%22 122|13|121|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Khirsah||17:56:01|07/12/2001|%3E%2Asnaps fingers%2A %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E I think I found an explanation that both fits within IN canon %0D%0A%3E-and- the requirements of the story. %0D%0A%3E Now%2C this is pure speculation%2C of course%2C but as far as I can %0D%0A%3Etell%2C it%27s not just the number of Forces that determines who is an %0D%0A%3EArchangel or Demon Prince. The designation of God or Lucifer is also %0D%0A%3Erequired. If that%27s the case%2C what if it%27s more than a designation%3F %0D%0A%3EWhat if naming a celestial a Superior also inherently grants them %0D%0A%3Especific powers%2C one of which is the direct manipulation of Forces%3F %0D%0A%3E If this is the case%2C then perhaps this power is also inherited %0D%0A%3Ewhen the forces that make up an Superior are transferred in toto to %0D%0A%3Eanother Celestial. %0D%0A%3E And if -that%27s- the case%2C then Reilael%2C after acquiring whatever %0D%0A%3EForces Moloch had remaining%2C may have been granted the ability to %0D%0A%3Emanipulate Forces directly enough to %27heal%27 herself without submerging %0D%0A%3Eher personality. Or%2C Moloch%27s condition may have made her personality %0D%0A%3E99.9999%25 dominant. Again%2C it%27s a totally unsure thing. But it might %0D%0A%3Efit. Thoughts%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AOooh. I %5Bb%5D%5Bi%5Dlike%5B%2Fb%5D%5B%2Fi%5D this idea. Even if it isn%27t the case%2C I think I%27ll incorporate it into the %5Bi%5DIn Nomine%5B%2Fi%5D campaign I%27m running...%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E--%22I invoke the rites of fiery Muspelheim%2C and give thy soul up to the %0D%0A%3Einferno%27s embrace...%22 %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A 115|9|112|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|BobSchroeck||08:06:54|07/11/2001|%3EHere%27s some idea of what I had in mind... part of this comes from the %0D%0A%3Epart about %22Lucifer %3Ccan take apart a body%3E by blinking funny%22... %0D%0A%0D%0AWow. I wasn%27t expecting anything like this when I turned that particular phrase... Nice.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Bob%0D%0A---------------%0D%0A%22Shinji. Same name as the master key -- well done%2C Ikari. Shinji can%27t be%0D%0Acopied. Splendid plan.%22 -- Tabris%2C in %5Bi%5DTenshi Muyo%21 Rei-o-ohki%5B%2Fi%5D 117|10|115|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||09:17:08|07/11/2001|%3EWow. I wasn%27t expecting anything like this when I turned that %0D%0A%3Eparticular phrase... Nice. %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m not very pleased with how it came out%2C actually... but it was written quickly off the top of my head%2C and it hurts that there%27s not really any scenic context. Far from my best writing.%0D%0A-Eliot %22Yeah%2C writing well is at the forefront of my mind right now%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 49|4|12|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|remande||20:53:44|06/26/2001|%3EReally%3F. I didn%27t see a stern Lucifer in that one. A curious Lucifer %0D%0A%3Eto be sure%2C but not an unhappy one. Afterall%2C DJ was tested but they %0D%0A%3Eboth found out %28or confirmed%29 what DJ%27s soul is like. I think Lucifer %0D%0A%3Ewould have given DJ back if he had thought of it. I guess that time %0D%0A%3Eworks differently for Lucifer than for the outside world. After all %0D%0A%3EDJ%27s vision quest took 1 month in real time. It appeared to take only %0D%0A%3Ea few days in the vision. %0D%0A%0D%0AFor the record%2C no spoilers are involved here.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt might not even be a matter of time. With DJ absorbed%2C Lucifer had his pilot and the Eternal Warrior within easy reach. With that%2C he was combat-ready at any time. This was a much better situation than before%2C when someone could keep DJ away from him and thus keep him from his full effectiveness. It was more %5Bem%5Deffective%5B%2Fem%5D to have DJ with him at all times.%0D%0A%0D%0AHe may have been inert at all that time%2C but that may just have meant that he was beyond human concerns. After all%2C the rest of the team treated him as Unit 01%2C a great war machine. What did he owe any of them%3F Releasing DJ would be nice on the human level%2C but Lucifer doesn%27t operate on the human level. I don%27t do what ants ask me to do%2C and archangels don%27t do what humans ask of them.%0D%0A%0D%0AThen Rei and Jon asked him to release DJ. %5Bem%5DReilial%5B%2Fem%5D asked him to release DJ. And the link between Lucifer and Reilial is deep%3B by her selfless defense at his defection%2C she may well have showed him the first act of love towards him since being cast into Hell. He owed her DJ%2C at the very least.%0D%0A%0D%0A --rR 52|5|49|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||08:37:33|06/27/2001|%3EFor the record%2C no spoilers are involved here. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EIt might not even be a matter of time%0D%0A%5Bblockquote%5D%5Bi%5D%22Your friend%2C%22 he replies. %22Now it%27s time for you to go. I%27ve found out what I wanted to know - and you%27ve found out what -you- wanted to know.%22%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Fblockquote%5D%0D%0ALucifer%27s words here imply pretty conclusively that he did plan on releasing DJ sooner or later - which make sense. As it stands%2C we have no indication that Lucifer can operate with an absorbed pilot once he shuts down %28we%27ve never seen him do it%29%2C and it may well be that part of what makes him so powerful is the fact that he and the Eternal Soldier are two different entities. As for not owing the group any loyalty - most of the time that he was EVA-01 and nothing else%2C he was hardly aware enough to be anything more than EVA-01. And as you said%2C he certainly owed Reilael some loyalty.%0D%0A-Eliot %22There%27s only so much you can say about EVA-01 to people who haven%27t read the series without serious misinterpretation%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 56|6|52|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Offsides||12:20:43|06/27/2001|Actually%2C the quote %28IMHO%29 implies that Lucifer was prepared to release DJ IF the conditions were right - Lucifer needed to find out who%2Fwhat DJ was%2C and DJ needed to find the strength to stand up to his own fear. DJ almost gave up and went down with the ship %28again - the first time was in the Dirac Ocean%29%2C only this time he decided to fight - and that%27s what Lucifer needed.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf DJ had given up%2C there would have been no reason for Lucifer to return DJ - he just would have given up again in the future. But DJ %5Bi%5Ddidn%27t%5B%2Fi%5D give in - he fought back the only way he could%2C knowing that he might fail. But at least he %5Bi%5Dtried%5B%2Fi%5D. And if DJ wasn%27t willing to give up%2C neither was Lucifer.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s a symbiotic relationship - both sides needed each other%2C but are separate entities nonetheless. Lucifer needed DJ%27s strength to regain his own%2C and DJ needed Lucifer%27s guidance to find his strength %28and himself%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AI think the second time DJ got %22absorbed%22 was different - rather than being tested by Lucifer %28after all%2C DJ wasn%27t planning on coming back%2C and Lucifer had to know if he%27d actually %22given up%22...%29%2C it was a concious choice to move beyond this plane of reality. DJ finally accepted his place in the cosmos as the Eternal Soldier%2C and Lucifer just helped him get where he was going. I wouldn%27t be surprised to find DJ up in %22heaven%22 keeping an eye on things and waiting fo just the right moment to return and finish his task...%0D%0A%0D%0AOf course%2C all of this is my opinion%2C and I%27ve been known to be wrong...%0D%0A%0D%0AOffsides%0D%0A%0D%0A%23include %3Cspeculation.h%3E 57|7|56|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||12:32:17|06/27/2001|%3EIf DJ had given up%2C there would have been no reason for Lucifer to %0D%0A%3Ereturn DJ - he just would have given up again in the future. But DJ %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5Ddidn%27t%5B%2Fi%5D give in - he fought back the only way he could%2C knowing %0D%0A%3Ethat he might fail. But at least he %5Bi%5Dtried%5B%2Fi%5D. And if DJ wasn%27t %0D%0A%3Ewilling to give up%2C neither was Lucifer. %0D%0A%0D%0AI dunno about that. If DJ had been %22weighed and found wanting%22%2C so to speak%2C I can%27t imagine that Lucifer would really want to keep the quitter%27s spirit bouncing around inside of him. I imagine that the scene would have ended much worse - or%2C for comic appeal%2C with DJ%27s new body being ejected out with great force from EVA-01%27s mouth%2C followed by Lucifer adding in his deep voice%2C %22...and the horse you rode in on%21%22%0D%0A-Eliot %22Yes%2C I just reread the %5Bi%5DEvangelion FLASH%21%5B%2Fi%5D trailer%2C why do you ask%3F%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 58|8|57|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Offsides||13:48:58|06/27/2001|%3EI dunno about that. If DJ had been %22weighed and found wanting%22%2C so to %0D%0A%3Espeak%2C I can%27t imagine that Lucifer would really want to keep the %0D%0A%3Equitter%27s spirit bouncing around inside of him. I imagine that the %0D%0A%3Escene would have ended much worse - or%2C for comic appeal%2C with DJ%27s %0D%0A%3Enew body being ejected out with great force from EVA-01%27s mouth%2C %0D%0A%3Efollowed by Lucifer adding in his deep voice%2C %22...and the horse you %0D%0A%3Erode in on%21%22 %0D%0A%0D%0AAhh... but why %5Bi%5Dreturn%5B%2Fi%5D him if he was found wanting%3F Why not just let DJ die and pass his spirit along to heavan%2Fhell like any other mortal %28even if he is the Eternal Soldier%2C the body is still mortal%29%3F I don%27t think he%27d want to be in a position to have DJ around at all if DJ failed the test...%0D%0A%0D%0AOffsides%0D%0A%0D%0A%23include %3Cjudgement.h%3E 59|9|58|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||13:56:26|06/27/2001|%3EAhh... but why %5Bi%5Dreturn%5B%2Fi%5D him if he was found wanting%3F Why not %0D%0A%3Ejust let DJ die and pass his spirit along to heavan%2Fhell like any %0D%0A%3Eother mortal %28even if he is the Eternal Soldier%2C the body is still %0D%0A%3Emortal%29%3F I don%27t think he%27d want to be in a position to have DJ %0D%0A%3Earound at all if DJ failed the test... %0D%0A%0D%0AI don%27t imagine he%27d care. As Tabriel said%2C %22They could not compel Lucifer before%2C and they certainly cannot now.%22 %28Quote slightly mangled.%29 If he doesn%27t want DJ to pilot him%2C DJ%27s not piloting him. And if he wants to remain inert%2C he will remain inert. In short%3A Lucifer wouldn%27t really have reason to care if DJ was around or not%2C so send the little whelp back%2C see if perhaps he can be improved.%0D%0A-Eliot %22Then again%2C it all depends on whether letting him die or not was more effort%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 62|10|59|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|trigger||17:59:31|06/27/2001|Why would Lucifer hurt DJ%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AI mean%2C really%2C what would be the benefit%3F Why would an angel seeking redemption hurt another soul%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AAfter all%2C he kept %28and sheltered%29 the Rei Prototype. We can speculate that it was because it was Rei was a friend...but Lucifer wasn%27t fully conscious at that point. He instinctively kept her after absorbing%2C rather than destorying her fractured soul. %0D%0A%0D%0AAdmittedly I assume the Lightbringer could have destroyed her soul. I don%27t know the %5Bi%5DIn Nomine%5B%2Fi%5D rules or if they even apply%2C so I can%27t be sure.%0D%0A%0D%0AFurthermore%2C he went on to help Tabris to whom he owed zip%2C despite Tabris%27 fit. Tabris chose to see Rei first. Lucifer%2C I suspect%2C was an afterthought%2C after it became clear that he was alive.%0D%0A%0D%0ANow the cynical among us could say%2C %22he needed Tabris%27 help%21%22. Maybe. Maybe Tabriel is someting Lucifer couldn%27t have done without Tabris. Or maybe he didn%27t think of it until Tabris showed up. Still%2C he didn%27t have to do anything.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ve seen nothing to indicate that Lucifer is the type that would just swat someone because that person annoyed him. %0D%0A%0D%0AFurthermore%2C if Lucifer is really returning to Heaven%2C wouldn%27t he want to help DJ redeem his soul%3F Isn%27t that what angels do%3F %0D%0A%0D%0Athoughts%2C %0D%0At.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A 63|11|62|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|BobSchroeck||07:41:13|06/28/2001|%3EAdmittedly I assume the Lightbringer could have destroyed her soul. I %0D%0A%3Edon%27t know the %5Bi%5DIn Nomine%5B%2Fi%5D rules or if they even apply%2C so I %0D%0A%3Ecan%27t be sure. %0D%0A%0D%0AJust as a point of reference%2C Lucifer in %5Bi%5DIn Nomine%5B%2Fi%5D%2C just like God%2C is for the most part a %28forgive me%29 deus ex machina. He has effectively infinite power%2C being capable of things even Demon Princes can%27t do. His only functional differences from God in the game are a%29 the side he%27s on%2C and b%29 he actually bums about in a Vessel from time to time.%0D%0A%0D%0AInasfar as soul-destruction is concerned%2C I%27d say it%27s well within Lucifer%27s power to unravel the Forces that compose a soul.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Bob%0D%0A---------------%0D%0ACome to the Wired. Ask for Lain. I will help you.%0D%0A-- from %5Bi%5DSerial Experiments Lain%3A The Legend Continues%5B%2Fi%5D 64|12|63|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|truss||09:58:58|06/28/2001|%3EJust as a point of reference%2C Lucifer in %5Bi%5DIn Nomine%5B%2Fi%5D%2C just like %0D%0A%3EGod%2C is for the most part a %28forgive me%29 deus ex machina. He has %0D%0A%3Eeffectively infinite power%2C being capable of things even Demon Princes %0D%0A%3Ecan%27t do. His only functional differences from God in the game are a%29 %0D%0A%3Ethe side he%27s on%2C and b%29 he actually bums about in a Vessel from time %0D%0A%3Eto time. %0D%0A%0D%0AWhich is%2C frankly%2C one of the reasons he becomes %5Bb%5Dmuch%5B%2Fb%5D more manageable as a full-fledged character in his current seriously-weakened state. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EInasfar as soul-destruction is concerned%2C I%27d say it%27s well within %0D%0A%3ELucifer%27s power to unravel the Forces that compose a soul. %0D%0A%0D%0APersonally%2C I would think that any Archangel or Demon Prince could do this... if they were willing to exert themselves a bit%2C and deal with the consequences of their actions afterward. I don%27t remember whether that%27s canon%2C but it feels right to me. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--truss.%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22You just disassembled my best soldier.%22%0D%0A%22I did that%2C yes.%22%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A 65|13|64|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|BobSchroeck||13:08:42|06/28/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-01 AT 01:09 PM (EDT)[/font][p]%3E%3EInasfar as soul-destruction is concerned%2C I%27d say it%27s well within %0D%0A%3E%3ELucifer%27s power to unravel the Forces that compose a soul. %0D%0A%3EPersonally%2C I would think that any Archangel or Demon Prince could do %0D%0A%3Ethis... if they were willing to exert themselves a bit%2C and deal with %0D%0A%3Ethe consequences of their actions afterward. I don%27t remember whether %0D%0A%3Ethat%27s canon%2C but it feels right to me. %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AI feel reasonably comfortable speaking %5Bi%5Dex cathedra%5B%2Fi%5D on this one even without being able to consult either my books or the line editor%3A given that all Superiors can make like Playdoh with Forces and pump out Servitors at will%2C and given that even %22ordinary%22 Celestial combat can destroy a soul by lopping off Forces one by one%2C a Superior should be able to shred a Servitor with little effort%2C and Lucifer should be able to do it by blinking funny. %0D%0A%0D%0A-- Bob%0D%0A---------------%0D%0ACome to the Wired. Ask for Lain. I will help you.%0D%0A-- from %5Bi%5DSerial Experiments Lain%3A The Legend Continues%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A 66|14|65|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||13:13:17|06/28/2001|%3Eand Lucifer should be %0D%0A%3Eable to do it by blinking funny. %0D%0A%0D%0ADarn it%2C Bob%2C now I have this very bad picture of DJ being recreated%2C Rei and Jon winking at Lucifer%2C Lucifer winking back without thinking%2C and then having the entire cast watch on in horror as Rei and Jon burn away into ash... %3B%3E%0D%0A-Eliot %22Not entirely accurate%2C I%27m sure%2C but funny%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 67|15|66|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|BobSchroeck||08:02:41|06/29/2001|%3EDarn it%2C Bob%2C now I have this very bad picture of DJ being recreated%2C %0D%0A%3ERei and Jon winking at Lucifer%2C Lucifer winking back without thinking%2C %0D%0A%3Eand then having the entire cast watch on in horror as Rei and Jon burn %0D%0A%3Eaway into ash... %3B%3E %0D%0A%0D%0A%3Csnort%3E%3Claugh%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Bob%0D%0A---------------%0D%0ACome to the Wired. Ask for Lain. I will help you.%0D%0A-- from %5Bi%5DSerial Experiments Lain%3A The Legend Continues%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A 102|15|66|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Khirsah||18:16:40|07/06/2001|%5Bb%5D%5Bi%5DSHATTER%5B%2Fb%5D%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ACurse you. 118|15|66|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Alathaniel||09:58:22|07/11/2001|%3EDarn it%2C Bob%2C now I have this very bad picture of DJ being recreated%2C %0D%0A%3ERei and Jon winking at Lucifer%2C Lucifer winking back without thinking%2C %0D%0A%3Eand then having the entire cast watch on in horror as Rei and Jon burn %0D%0A%3Eaway into ash... %3B%3E %0D%0A%0D%0ASlightly off topic%2C yet somehow not... %2Acues stereo%2A%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%0D%0AThe statue got me high%0D%0AThe statue got me high%0D%0AThe monument of granite sent a beam into my eye%0D%0AThe statue made me die%0D%0AThe statue made me die%0D%0AIt took my hand it killed me and it turned me to the sky%0D%0A%0D%0AThe stone it called to me%0D%0A%28and now I see the things the stone has shown to me%29%0D%0AA rock that spoke a word%0D%0A%28an animated mineral it can be heard%29%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd though I once preferred a human being%27s company%0D%0AThey pale before the monolith that towers over me%0D%0A%0D%0AThe statue got me high%0D%0AThe statue got me high%0D%0AThe truth is where the sculptor%27s chisel chipped away the lie%0D%0AThe statue made me fry%0D%0AThe statue made me fry%0D%0AMy coat contained a furnace where there used to be a guy%0D%0A%0D%0AThe stone it called to me%0D%0A%28and now I see the things the stone has shown to me%29%0D%0AA rock that spoke a word%0D%0A%28an animated mineral it can be heard%29%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd as the screaming fire engine siren filled the air%0D%0AThe evidence had vanished from my charred and smoking chair%0D%0AAnd what they found was just a statue%0D%0AStanding where the statue got me high%0D%0AAnd what they found was just a statue%0D%0AStanding where the statue got me high%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd now it is your turn%0D%0A%28your turn to hear the stone and then your turn to burn%29%0D%0AThe stone it calls to you%0D%0A%28you can%27t refuse to do the things it tells you to%29%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd as the screaming fire engine siren fills the air%0D%0AThe evidence will vanish from your charred and smoking chair%0D%0AAnd what they found was just a statue%0D%0AStanding where the statue got me high%0D%0AAnd what they%27ll find is just a statue%0D%0AStanding where the statue got you high%0D%0A%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A-They Might Be Giants%2C %22The Statue Got me High%22%2C Apollo 18%0D%0A%0D%0AAlath A%27Tharen%0D%0A%0D%0AThis space intentionally left blank. 87|14|65|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Verbena||20:24:44|07/04/2001|%0D%0A%3E%3E%3EInasfar as soul-destruction is concerned%2C I%27d say it%27s well within %0D%0A%3E%3E%3ELucifer%27s power to unravel the Forces that compose a soul. %0D%0A%3E%3EPersonally%2C I would think that any Archangel or Demon Prince could do %0D%0A%3E%3Ethis... if they were willing to exert themselves a bit%2C and deal with %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe consequences of their actions afterward. I don%27t remember whether %0D%0A%3E%3Ethat%27s canon%2C but it feels right to me. %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI feel reasonably comfortable speaking %5Bi%5Dex cathedra%5B%2Fi%5D on this one %0D%0A%3Eeven without being able to consult either my books or the line editor%3A %0D%0A%3E given that all Superiors can make like Playdoh with Forces and pump %0D%0A%3Eout Servitors at will%2C and given that even %22ordinary%22 Celestial combat %0D%0A%3Ecan destroy a soul by lopping off Forces one by one%2C a Superior should %0D%0A%3Ebe able to shred a Servitor with little effort%2C and Lucifer should be %0D%0A%3Eable to do it by blinking funny. %0D%0A%0D%0A Actually%2C I think I have the answer to this...sort of by putting both of yours together%3A A starting angel has 9 Forces. I have no idea how many Tabris or the Rei prototype had%2C but since both were broken %28And Tabris was in that hellacious fight at Second Impact%29 I think what Lucifer did was take the forces of both of them and recombine them into a single powerful Celestial. Even Lucifer can%27t make Forces out of nothing%2C after all...they have to come from the Symphony one way or another. I think Lucifer had to be spurred to action through Tabris%27 assault on him%2C of course%2C but once he finally came to again%2C the result was a Celestial that solved both Tabris%27 and the Rei proto%27s problems%2C and gave him a servitor and a voice in the Seraphim Council as well.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A--%22I invoke the rites of fiery Muspelheim%2C and give thy soul up to the inferno%27s embrace...%22 88|15|87|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Gryphon||20:33:52|07/04/2001|%3E Actually%2C I think I have the answer to this...sort of by putting %0D%0A%3Eboth of yours together%3A A starting angel has 9 Forces. I have no idea %0D%0A%3Ehow many Tabris or the Rei prototype had%2C but since both were broken %0D%0A%3E%28And Tabris was in that hellacious fight at Second Impact%29 I think %0D%0A%3Ewhat Lucifer did was take the forces of both of them and recombine %0D%0A%3Ethem into a single powerful Celestial. %0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%5Bb%5DDING%21%5B%2Fb%5D%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 89|15|87|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|BobSchroeck||08:03:58|07/05/2001|%3EI think %0D%0A%3Ewhat Lucifer did was take the forces of both of them and recombine %0D%0A%3Ethem into a single powerful Celestial. %0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C yeah%2C I thought that was blindingly obvious from the St. Peter scene.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhat we were talking about was how easy it would have been for Lucifer to crush and destroy him rather than rebuild him. %28Ack. %22We can rebuild him. We have the Forces.%22 Cue theme music for %5Bi%5DThe Six Million Dollar Angel%5B%2Fi%5D...%29%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Bob%0D%0A---------------%0D%0ACome to the Wired. Ask for Lain. I will help you.%0D%0A-- from %5Bi%5DSerial Experiments Lain%3A The Legend Continues%5B%2Fi%5D 95|16|89|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Verbena||09:23:24|07/06/2001|%3EWell%2C yeah%2C I thought that was blindingly obvious from the St. Peter %0D%0A%3Escene. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EWhat we were talking about was how easy it would have been for Lucifer %0D%0A%3Eto crush and destroy him rather than rebuild him. %28Ack. %22We can %0D%0A%3Erebuild him. We have the Forces.%22 Cue theme music for %5Bi%5DThe Six %0D%0A%3EMillion Dollar Angel%5B%2Fi%5D...%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AAh. I thought you were trying to figure out how%2C in the In Nomine rules%2C two celestials could be merged. Everyone was dancing around it but never quite hitting it. The fact is%2C Lucifer could have easily destroyed them and then created his Servitor%2C by disbanding all their Forces first and -then- combining them...but this is not the way to ingratiate oneself with the Host%2C now is it%3F %3DP %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A--%22I invoke the rites of fiery Muspelheim%2C and give thy soul up to the inferno%27s embrace...%22 96|17|95|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|BobSchroeck||13:07:14|07/06/2001|%3EAh. I thought you were trying to figure out how%2C in the In Nomine %0D%0A%3Erules%2C two celestials could be merged. Everyone was dancing around it %0D%0A%3Ebut never quite hitting it. %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27d have to check with the Line Editor on this one%2C but there are %5Bi%5Dno%5B%2Fi%5D explicit rules for this kind of thing%2C and I%27d have to say probably never will be. If a Servitor can%27t do it%2C there%27s no rule to cover it%3B that%27s because Superiors and above are GM fiat territory%2C at the very least to simulate the ineffability of miracle. %5Bi%5DIN%5B%2Fi%5D handles it by not handling it.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E The fact is%2C Lucifer could have easily %0D%0A%3Edestroyed them and then created his Servitor%2C by disbanding all their %0D%0A%3EForces first and -then- combining them...but this is not the way to %0D%0A%3Eingratiate oneself with the Host%2C now is it%3F %3DP %0D%0A%0D%0ANot at all. %3Cgrin%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Bob%0D%0A---------------%0D%0A%22Shinji. Same name as the master key -- well done%2C Ikari. Shinji can%27t be%0D%0Acopied. Splendid plan.%22 -- Tabris%2C in %5Bi%5DTenshi Muyo%21 Rei-o-ohki%5B%2Fi%5D 97|18|96|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||13:22:56|07/06/2001|%3E%5Bi%5DIN%5B%2Fi%5D handles it by not handling it. %0D%0A%0D%0ABoth a good and bad plan to use in rules... when dealing with miracles%2C it makes sense%2C but I can%27t tell you how annoying White Wolf%27s tendency to just leave very powerful entities at this level. %22The third generation succeeds at anything it tries to do.%22 Well%2C that%27s all well and good%2C meaning that no matter the circumstances someone of the third generation can do what they want%3F Meaning that while on fire they can still play a flawless symphony%3F%0D%0A%0D%0APart of it%2C of course%2C is that I%27ve got an age-old frustration with omnipotence. Nothing of man born is omnipotent or perfect. No matter how close it may appear to be%2C it%27s flawed in some way. Everybody%27s got some degree of weakness%2C even the gods themselves.%0D%0A-Eliot %22There%27s an old argument I had about this%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 105|19|97|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Verbena||11:03:27|07/08/2001|%3E%3E%5Bi%5DIN%5B%2Fi%5D handles it by not handling it. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EBoth a good and bad plan to use in rules... when dealing with %0D%0A%3Emiracles%2C it makes sense%2C but I can%27t tell you how annoying White %0D%0A%3EWolf%27s tendency to just leave very powerful entities at this level. %0D%0A%3E%22The third generation succeeds at anything it tries to do.%22 Well%2C %0D%0A%3Ethat%27s all well and good%2C meaning that no matter the circumstances %0D%0A%3Esomeone of the third generation can do what they want%3F Meaning that %0D%0A%3Ewhile on fire they can still play a flawless symphony%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AI don%27t think it%27s supposed to be -that- extensive...and of course%2C no responsible GM would%2C either.%0D%0ABut that%27s the key%3A responsible GM%27ing. Sure you can go out and have a Monty Haul campaign where everyone%27s an Assamite with Quietus 6 and rocket launchers. But what%27s the damned point%3F I like having twink-type games on occasion%2C too. But that%27s what Baldur%27s Gate II is for. I don%27t take that attitude to the gaming table....it%27s not what it%27s there for.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EPart of it%2C of course%2C is that I%27ve got an age-old frustration with %0D%0A%3Eomnipotence. Nothing of man born is omnipotent or perfect. No matter %0D%0A%3Ehow close it may appear to be%2C it%27s flawed in some way. Everybody%27s %0D%0A%3Egot some degree of weakness%2C even the gods themselves. %0D%0A%0D%0AYou and me both--in fact%2C I%27ve demonstrated this before when I%27ve questioned things like DJ%27s and Kaitlyn%27s skills and whatnot. I%27m just showing my paranoid GM%2FMUX wiz side there%2C I guess. But%2C there are three little words that solve this whole problem. Deus ex machina. If you remember to think of them as GM territory completely%2C as a plot device rather than even a real person in your story%2C you can use them sparingly and have what you want to happen happen without feeling as though you%27re bitching your players. Just remember to keep it rare%2C keep it fair%2C and never%2C ever explain what you%27re doing OOCly. They should never have the whole story. And since you have complete control%2C feel free to give them whatever weaknesses you like. The players will never be able to utilize them%2C because you%27ll never let slip what they are. You%27ll notice how frequent the %27I%27m not answering that%27 posts Gryphon%2C Megazone%2C or Truss will put up here for specifically this reason. Stories are much more fun when you haven%27t read the last page first.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A--%22I invoke the rites of fiery Muspelheim%2C and give thy soul up to the inferno%27s embrace...%22 16|2|4|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|goldenfire||16:08:41|06/25/2001|%3EIf I had to venture a guess%2C the %0D%0A%3Eodd mixture the first time around was a marker for the friendly techs %0D%0A%3Eto know that he wasn%27t really gone%0D%0A%0D%0Aactually%2C I jsut did a quick skim of 3%3A2%2C and saw something interesting. Unless it was done%2C and not mentionned...no one ever did a GENETIC scan of DJ after Lucifer let him go. How do they know he%27s still made of carbon and water and whatnot%2C like a normal person...we %5Bb%5Dknow%5B%2Fb%5D angel %27DNA%27 is close to human. There might be no remains in the second case%2C because the body Lucifer absorbed wasn%27t the same.%0D%0A%0D%0ANow%2C there are several assumptions in there%2C including that no one gave him an exam %27deeper%27 than first-aid%2Felectrolyte-balance. Just remember%2C the components of his original body were %5Bi%5Dlost%5B%2Fi%5D%2C so whatever Lucifer returned%2C even though it had DJ%27s soul%2C was %5Bb%5Dnot%5B%2Fb%5D his original body... 17|3|16|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|LostFactor||16:13:58|06/25/2001|This is an interesting theory%2C although I%27d tend to doubt that NERV wouldn%27t pour over DJ after he%27d been recreated from scratch. It would explain not leaving any remains%2C and it could be used to explain why his EVA talent changed so dramatically%2C but I%27d think something like that might screw with being the Eternal Soldier.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27d assume that NERV did at least rudimentary DNA testing to make sure that he was really all right. But I could be filling in the pages that are being intentionally left blank.%0D%0A-Eliot %22I don%27t have a witty quote for this one%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. 18|4|17|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|truss||16:19:49|06/25/2001|I%27ve been having fun reading this thread%2C and don%27t want to short-circuit any speculation discussions... but I think this bit is harmless enough%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI%27d assume that NERV did at least rudimentary DNA testing to make sure %0D%0A%3Ethat he was really all right. But I could be filling in the pages %0D%0A%3Ethat are being intentionally left blank. %0D%0A%0D%0AOh%2C yeah. I%27m not going to go into biological specifics %28mainly because my knowledge of bio is crap %3A%29 -- but suffice to say that DJ was run through quite a few tests after that%2C and that his readings came out normal.%0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C as much as anything can be considered %22normal%22 after that. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--truss.%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%26l%3B%22We haven%27t blown one up to get baselines%2C%22 the tech responded.%26r%3B%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A 21|5|18|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|goldenfire||16:27:40|06/25/2001|%3EOh%2C yeah. I%27m not going to go into biological specifics %28mainly %0D%0A%3Ebecause my knowledge of bio is crap %3A%29 -- but suffice to say that DJ %0D%0A%3Ewas run through quite a few tests after that%2C and that his readings %0D%0A%3Ecame out normal. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EWell%2C as much as anything can be considered %22normal%22 after that. %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0Aah%2C well...I fgured that was probably the case%2C but it was an entertaining theory while it was kicking around my head %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E--truss. %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5D%26l%3B%22We haven%27t blown one up to get baselines%2C%22 the tech %0D%0A%3Eresponded.%26r%3B%5B%2Fi%5D %0D%0A%0D%0Ayou know%2C taken in this context%2C that quote is just %5Bb%5Dso%5B%2Fb%5D wrong.%0D%0ABesides%2C I don%27t think Asuka would like you blowing up her boyfriend %3A%29%0D%0A 32|5|18|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|BobSchroeck||07:53:20|06/26/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-01 AT 12:44 PM (EDT)[/font][p]%3EOh%2C yeah. I%27m not going to go into biological specifics %28mainly %0D%0A%3Ebecause my knowledge of bio is crap %3A%29 -- but suffice to say that DJ %0D%0A%3Ewas run through quite a few tests after that%2C and that his readings %0D%0A%3Ecame out normal. %0D%0A%3EWell%2C as much as anything can be considered %22normal%22 after that. %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C assuming that this is one area where IN rules haven%27t been chucked in favor of dramatic necessity%2C a Celestial Vessel is pretty much indistinguishable from a normal human body to medical tests. I think it%27s pretty likely that no matter what it seems to be%2C DJ%27s third-season physical form is actually a Vessel crafted by Lucifer in the image of his original body.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Bob%0D%0A---------------%0D%0ACome to the Wired. Ask for Lain. I will help you.%0D%0A-- from %5Bi%5DSerial Experiments Lain%3A The Legend Continues%5B%2Fi%5D 36|6|32|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|truss||09:52:51|06/26/2001|%3EWell%2C assuming that this one area where IN rules haven%27t been chucked %0D%0A%3Ein favor of dramatic necessity%2C a Celestial Vessel is pretty much %0D%0A%3Eindistinguishable from a normal human body to medical tests. I think %0D%0A%3Eit%27s pretty likely that no matter what it seems to be%2C DJ%27s %0D%0A%3Ethird-season physical form is actually a Vessel crafted by Lucifer in %0D%0A%3Ethe image of his original body. %0D%0A%0D%0AWhile it%27s never come up in discussion between the authors%2C I%27d say you%27re probably right. %28Or close enough to right that it won%27t make any difference.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--truss.%0D%0A 98|6|32|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|Khirsah||16:52:28|07/06/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jul-07-01 AT 05:21 PM (EDT)[/font][p]%3EWell%2C assuming that this is one area where IN rules haven%27t been %0D%0A%3Echucked in favor of dramatic necessity%2C a Celestial Vessel is pretty %0D%0A%3Emuch indistinguishable from a normal human body to medical tests. I %0D%0A%3Ethink it%27s pretty likely that no matter what it seems to be%2C DJ%27s %0D%0A%3Ethird-season physical form is actually a Vessel crafted by Lucifer in %0D%0A%3Ethe image of his original body. %0D%0A%0D%0AGoing by what I%27ve read in the GURPS In Nomine book %28I picked it up to help me make more sense of NXE%2C and because the concepts are cool...%29%2C a Vessel %5Bi%5Dis%5B%2Fi%5D entirely mortal-seeming to medical tests. Which %5Bi%5Ddoes%5B%2Fi%5D lend itself to helping explain where DJ%27s body went - it %27vanished into potentiality%27 the way most Vessels do when the occupants go celestial.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28The next day...%29%0D%0A%0D%0AAhem... To finish writing things down... And clarify my own confused train of thought...%0D%0A%0D%0ARitsuko was expecting to find the dissolved junk in the LCL%2C since this had happened before%2C with Rei-P%2FT. That matched their expectations%2C and thus we can safely conclude that DJ%27s entire mortal form was destroyed by his absorption.%0D%0A%0D%0AThis means that either Lucifer somehow created a brand-new %5Bi%5Dhuman%5B%2Fi%5D body for DJ %28which%2C last I heard%2C wasn%27t really all that possible%2C even for Archangels - otherwise Saints would have fully human bodies%2C I%27d think%2C out of preference.%29%2C or DJ is now inhabiting a Vessel crafted by Lucifer when he gave him back to Rei and Jon.%0D%0A%0D%0AI favor the Vessel idea%2C because it%27s a really simple explanation for why there wasn%27t any remains of DJ%27s body this time. When he was absorbed%2C his Vessel would have %27vanished%27 the way celestial vessels do%2C hence the lack of junk in the LCL that confused Natla and company. DJ%2C in my deranged opinion%2C is probably hiding out with Lucifer%27s celestial essence%2C waiting for the chance to cause trouble for SEELE and save the world%2C as the Soldier is supposed to do.%0D%0A%0D%0AOne other freakish thought that ran through my mind is this%3A DJ is the Eternal Soldier. With In Nomine%2C Soldiers are mortals who have gained an awareness of the Symphony%2C of the War%2C and a measure of control over their own Essence - as well as the power to use certain celestial abilities - like Songs and Attunements. Probably off base with it%2C but it sounds good... A Saint and a Soldier at one and the same time%2C gathering ever more power with each lifetime in the form of levels of Power Investiture...%0D%0A%0D%0A-Khirsah the Deranged%0D%0A%22I only wake up at sunset.%22 85|5|18|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|TPL_Vinny||02:34:09|07/04/2001|And I read the next post on the thread and my multi-million dollar rise to the top is quashed by a 40-foot full-on macking monolith. How very broly of you%2C El Truss-o. %3A%5C%7B %28frowny-quashed%29 84|4|17|||||RE%3A Theories about DJ %2F Lucifer %2F 3%3A9|TPL_Vinny||02:31:48|07/04/2001|%3EThis is an interesting theory%2C although I%27d tend to doubt that NERV %0D%0A%3Ewouldn%27t pour over DJ after he%27d been recreated from scratch. It %0D%0A%3Ewould explain not leaving any remains%2C and it could be used to explain %0D%0A%3Ewhy his EVA talent changed so dramatically%2C but I%27d think something %0D%0A%3Elike that might screw with being the Eternal Soldier. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI%27d assume that NERV did at least rudimentary DNA testing to make sure %0D%0A%3Ethat he was really all right. But I could be filling in the pages %0D%0A%3Ethat are being intentionally left blank. %0D%0A%3E-Eliot %22I don%27t have a witty quote for this one%22 Lefebvre %0D%0A%3E-%3D%28%29%3D- %0D%0A%3EWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most %0D%0A%3Eof it. %0D%0A%3E%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendance Productions%5D %0D%0A%3EProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period. %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AThat could explain the 3%3A9 goings-on. DJ is running about%28con permiso%29 in a Runabout Lucifer. Fweird. So%2C DJ%27s flying back in to dock for an overhaul to scamper from Bad Guys Mk. 2 and do the Andy Kaufman as Mighty Mouse thing. And if all goes according to the theoretical plan I%27m making up%2C then Luke and Croft pop up right smack dab in the middle of wherever the hell SEELE HQ is.%0D%0A%0D%0AI do apologize if I gave anything away. %0D%0A%0D%0A%28If you Godly Editors want to use that%2C be my guest. Of course%2C this is probably the 1%3A35 AM with nothing to survive on but Jolt%2C caffeine gum and grilled cheese sammiches%5BYou heard me.%5D.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Take THAT%21%2C Corporate America%21%22 %0D%0A%0D%0A %28Innovafertimus as he casts an 82-mana Drain Life on a 2%2F2 Corporate America token.%29%0D%0A%0D%0AUn-Corporate God%0D%0A%0D%0A Innovafertimus%0D%0A%0D%0A %0D%0A%0D%0A 123|1|0|||||A Summation|LostFactor||08:50:04|07/13/2001|Yeah%2C it%27s replying to my own topic%2C but it should be very clear that I%27m not the only person who%27s posting to this. %3B%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AI don%27t know if Gryph accidentally let some things slip%2C but here%27s the conclusions %28entirely on-topic ones%2C anyhow%29 that I%27ve been able to discern.%0D%0A%5Bul%5D%0D%0A%5Bli%5DDJ never had the EVA talent.%0D%0A%5Bli%5DResonance between his essence and Lucifer allowed him to pilot EVA-01%2C and a similar effect allowed him to pilot Moloch briefly. The only other Evangelion he rode in was Grendel%2C with Asuka piloting. He cannot pilot production models.%0D%0A%5Bli%5DHis body from 3%3A2 onward was a Vessel created by Lucifer. He%27s still human%2C but his body could be recalled without leaving any trace...%0D%0A%5Bli%5D...which is exactly what happened in 3%3A9. Lucifer%27s just smart enough to keep the body hidden for a little while.%0D%0A%5Bli%5DAsuka Soryu-Langley is a weapon. %3B%3E%0D%0A%5B%2Ful%5D%0D%0AThere. It%27s settled%2C then. %3B%3E%0D%0A-Eliot %22Now let%27s move to the Rei thread before this becomes another %27NXE Hostility%27%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendence Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period.